What can MMORPGs teach us about world building?
- Thread starter Bullgrit
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ExploderWizard
Hero
Beat me to it.cmrscorpio
Explorer
One of the biggest things I've picked up from MMORPGs regarding worldbuilding is that PCs in my games are very likely to encounter a locale (pass by forgotten ruins, stumble upon a hidden grove, seeing a tower or monastery high atop a nearby mountain, etc) during a cross-country excursion before they actually learn that they need to go there for a quest. It helps give the PCs the sense that things exist in the world before it becomes relevant to the developing story.
Halivar
First Post
Thematic diversity of areas. No two areas are the same. Stylistic elements are TO TEH MAX!!!1!!1!!eleven!!!.
At first, it was a little jarring. Everything was rich, extreme, unrealistic to the point of fantastical. But then again, that's part of the draw. It's a tacit rejection of realism in favor of artistic fantasy. Aesthetics, not consistency, is the important thing.
Each area's flavor effects its narrative description and backstory.
Undead areas are dark, mysterious, and melancholic. The world mythos for these areas are rife with pain, grief, and tragedy. In MMORPG's you often have quests that reflect a glimmer of hope that things can be different. A vengeful spirit that can only be put to rest with a love letter from it's ancient lover; a font of evil that can be destroyed, etc.
In an MMORPG, you can have each area have its own ancient mythos that the quests eventually tie into. But then there's the meta-quests that tie them together. Each continent has two or three of them. They form a chain of quests that take adventurers from one area to the next. They can fulfill the quests in order, or they can stumble into a middle link and follow it from there. OR, they might stumble into another meta-quest. Eventually, though, the meta-quests tie together, so that no matter what road the adventurers take, they end up at the world-shattering event that everything thus far has led up to. In MMORPG's this is called "end-game content," and is structured in such a way that it is only partly resolved, so that the story-line can continue with the next software expansion.
In my opinion, those games that can learn the most from MMORPG's are sandbaox games where events are happening in the world that adventurers need to interact with. The storylines are laid down already, and it's up to the players to decided where, when, and how they are participating in world events.
It's something I've been considering for my next campaign.
At first, it was a little jarring. Everything was rich, extreme, unrealistic to the point of fantastical. But then again, that's part of the draw. It's a tacit rejection of realism in favor of artistic fantasy. Aesthetics, not consistency, is the important thing.
Each area's flavor effects its narrative description and backstory.
Undead areas are dark, mysterious, and melancholic. The world mythos for these areas are rife with pain, grief, and tragedy. In MMORPG's you often have quests that reflect a glimmer of hope that things can be different. A vengeful spirit that can only be put to rest with a love letter from it's ancient lover; a font of evil that can be destroyed, etc.
In an MMORPG, you can have each area have its own ancient mythos that the quests eventually tie into. But then there's the meta-quests that tie them together. Each continent has two or three of them. They form a chain of quests that take adventurers from one area to the next. They can fulfill the quests in order, or they can stumble into a middle link and follow it from there. OR, they might stumble into another meta-quest. Eventually, though, the meta-quests tie together, so that no matter what road the adventurers take, they end up at the world-shattering event that everything thus far has led up to. In MMORPG's this is called "end-game content," and is structured in such a way that it is only partly resolved, so that the story-line can continue with the next software expansion.
In my opinion, those games that can learn the most from MMORPG's are sandbaox games where events are happening in the world that adventurers need to interact with. The storylines are laid down already, and it's up to the players to decided where, when, and how they are participating in world events.
It's something I've been considering for my next campaign.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
One thing that got my attention playing WoW is how the quests are structured if you look at them from a more macro level. So you get a quest to take the McGuffin from Town A to Town B. When you get to Town B you discover that the person you brought the McGuffin to would like you to enter Dungeon X and gather some other type of item. And you probably think, "Hmm...Ok, maybe I'll look into that." But then as you stroll around Town B a bit more you discover three other people that have reasons for you to delve into Dungeon X. So suddenly that is looking like a more and more attractive adventuring locale.
To some extent I've tried to adopt this concept in my current campaign. Most of the places the PC's have adventured have been because they have two or three pretty good reasons to do so. Some of these are external (they are doing it at the request of somebody else) and some are internal (they are part of a character's personal motivations). I think that I've done this for a long time to some extent but I've really been looking hard to weave this net of interests tighter in the current campaign. It seems to increase the player "buy in" about a particular adventure and makes it easier to plan the sessions.
The bit above that Halivar mentioned about the diversity of the regions has been another one that I've gotten to play with a lot in my current game. Because of the way that my game world is structured, I've got a good excuse to have geographically diverse areas within a relatively short distance of each other. So the PC's have to rolling pasturelands, a dense urban environment, dry badlands/canyons, snow covered mountaintop, baren stonescape, verdant forest and then swamplands and they've only ever travelled a couple hundred miles or so from where they started. I find it fun to be able to run combats in environments that are so different and it also helps fix a particular place in the minds of the players too.
To some extent I've tried to adopt this concept in my current campaign. Most of the places the PC's have adventured have been because they have two or three pretty good reasons to do so. Some of these are external (they are doing it at the request of somebody else) and some are internal (they are part of a character's personal motivations). I think that I've done this for a long time to some extent but I've really been looking hard to weave this net of interests tighter in the current campaign. It seems to increase the player "buy in" about a particular adventure and makes it easier to plan the sessions.
The bit above that Halivar mentioned about the diversity of the regions has been another one that I've gotten to play with a lot in my current game. Because of the way that my game world is structured, I've got a good excuse to have geographically diverse areas within a relatively short distance of each other. So the PC's have to rolling pasturelands, a dense urban environment, dry badlands/canyons, snow covered mountaintop, baren stonescape, verdant forest and then swamplands and they've only ever travelled a couple hundred miles or so from where they started. I find it fun to be able to run combats in environments that are so different and it also helps fix a particular place in the minds of the players too.
Lord Xtheth
Explorer
Everything I know in life I learned from MMORPGs
Talk to the guy with the !
There's always 10 more wolves
Red means stop, Green means ignore
If it's not meant to be killed, why is it made of meat and XPs?
Everything has a bag of treasure
Yelling things in public places gets you free stuff
Never sell to the shopkeep
Always sell to other players
If you run far enough, it'll forget you exist
Gold grows on farms
Theres still 10 more wolves
Walking is for n00bs
Pies are for the elite
Guards don't
There's always somthign bigger
Don't cross the streams
Healing potions are collapsable
Theres another 10 wolves
7h15 15 7h3 c0m0n 70ngu3
Theres always a dark elf
Animals have random numbers of organs
Yelling your name and level in a bar will make you friends
You can buy XP
Sure I'll give you the Mcguffin, just slay me 10 more wolves
(I'm sure there's more, but I'm tired)
Talk to the guy with the !
There's always 10 more wolves
Red means stop, Green means ignore
If it's not meant to be killed, why is it made of meat and XPs?
Everything has a bag of treasure
Yelling things in public places gets you free stuff
Never sell to the shopkeep
Always sell to other players
If you run far enough, it'll forget you exist
Gold grows on farms
Theres still 10 more wolves
Walking is for n00bs
Pies are for the elite
Guards don't
There's always somthign bigger
Don't cross the streams
Healing potions are collapsable
Theres another 10 wolves
7h15 15 7h3 c0m0n 70ngu3
Theres always a dark elf
Animals have random numbers of organs
Yelling your name and level in a bar will make you friends
You can buy XP
Sure I'll give you the Mcguffin, just slay me 10 more wolves
(I'm sure there's more, but I'm tired)
cmrscorpio said: One of the biggest things I've picked up from MMORPGs regarding worldbuilding is that PCs in my games are very likely to encounter a locale (pass by forgotten ruins, stumble upon a hidden grove, seeing a tower or monastery high atop a nearby mountain, etc) during a cross-country excursion before they actually learn that they need to go there for a quest. It helps give the PCs the sense that things exist in the world before it becomes relevant to the developing story.
__________________
I'd go along with this. When I was playing EQ it was fun to just explore, stick my nose into zones, and then see if I could survive! It gives the game an organic feel. You really can go any direction. No railroad, unless you pick the route yourself.
__________________
I'd go along with this. When I was playing EQ it was fun to just explore, stick my nose into zones, and then see if I could survive! It gives the game an organic feel. You really can go any direction. No railroad, unless you pick the route yourself.
Hjorimir
Adventurer
I would be curious how many in-game days would pass if you were to walk (not run) an Everquest character on a tour of just all the surface zones (especially if your character stopped to rest for 6 to 8 hours each day). I think you'd be surprised just how long it would take.
At a "quick" count, there are rougly 650 Everquest zones; though many of them are dungeons.
Asmor
First Post
The size of the world is condensed on what I'd almost describe as a logarithmic scale, based on the "interest" of a particular area.
Using WoW as an example, Stormwind is much, much larger than it actually is in WoW. And the surrounding towns like Lakeshire and Darkshire are much more distant.
Of course, the vast majority of the omitted stuff would be pointless and wasteful. Blocks and blocks of housing and mundane businesses, countless miles with nothing to do at all.
In fact, there's just enough there to get the general feel of things. There are a few shops in Stormwind which don't really have a purpose except to act as local color; the general location of things relative to each other is basically correct.
And I started writing this to correct you, but it occurs to me that in this WoW teaches us a very important lesson about worldbuilding and GMing in general: don't go crazy on detail. Get just enough to give the flavor to the players and concentrate on the meaty bits.
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