D&D 5E What classes do you want added to 5e?

Well, just to answer the original poll question, I've got every class I want. If we have expansions, I'd prefer subclasses[.]

I wouldn't oppose a splatbook that contains warlords, wardens, shamans, psions, and whatnot, but I probably wouldn't buy it.

Yeah, this.

Frankly, the only thing I miss is the 1E AD&D UA Cavalier. I loved loved LOOOOOVED playing those. I'd play one in a second in 5e. I haven't looked, but I'm sure there's a way to spec out a 5e Fighter with feats to accomplish that.

You could fill a book with what I don't know about Warlords and Psions and Swordmages or whatever, so I don't miss them.

I've only skimmed this thread, so I don't know all of what's been discussed. What I have seen is quite a lot of butthurt about 5e supposedly gathering everyone under One Big Tent.* To which I say, "Aw, get over it."

Some of us said from the instant they saw that lofty goal, "It ain't gonna happen. It never can happen." At best they'd make something that satisfied no "true fan" of a previous edition. Why? Because the editions were too different. The game completely changed when character generation went from class-based with lots of classes to skill-and-feat-based, with basically four classes you can customize ad infinitum. That's why you can't really turn a 5e Fighter into a satisfactory Warlord: The Warlord wasn't a class, it was an assembly of skills and powers and feats chosen to have a specific flavor.

More importantly, those games appeal to different people differently. Some people enjoy meticulous character builds. Some don't. Personally, I'm in the latter camp, which is one reason 5e appeals to me so much. When it comes to bringing the previous editions together, the developers came closest to the crotchety old farts like me, who remember rolling up characters in 5 minutes on a sheet of notepaper. You can do that again. That's ... whoa. I never thought I'd see the day. The people I see/hear bitching most about 5e are the 3e-PF-4e players. I find that interesting (and kind of cool to see I was right).

Anyway, I'm rambling. Sorry.

I think this "I want this class" or "I want that class" isn't about anything broken in the game. It's pretty clear to me, from comments on these fora, that it's about validation: I want this thing, and you have to give it to me! I don't know I hold with that. They don't owe you or I anything. They gave you a complete game. Moreover, they gave you a complete game which you can modify to make your own.

Perhaps those who are pushing for what they want aren't playing the game for them, the game they like. That's not to say they don't have the right to urge the WizKids to come up with content which more engages their interest. That's only to say that they already have a game which has in it what they like. Isn't it less aggravating to just keep playing that game?

That's why I'm a fan of splatbooks. Make them all "canon" or "cool for Adventurer's League" or whatever, let individual DMs decide whether or not to permit at their table, and roll on. That's what we did with the Great Puking of 2e splatbooks in days of yore, and it worked out.

Hey, WizBro peeps, if you're listening, here's a word of advice: I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone. Sometimes I wish we were back in the early 1990s, where all we had was writing letters to TSR or Dragon Magazine. The noise:signal ratio is out of control. If I were in your shoes, if I had to deal with all the kvetching, I'd have topped myself yonks ago.

* As well as BADWRONGFUN. I don't even know how to approach that.
 

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Well I see it this way.

New classes can appear in books when appropriate. Esppically if a book realises variants and substems that have major themes.

For example , I'd want a full dragonish class in the Draconomicon for 5e. The dragon sorcerer only wets its feat in elemental magic, supernatural fear, and other dragon stuff. A full dragon disciple class with dragon shaman and fire adepts subclasses would make sense. Complaining about a dragon class not matching a Draconomicon is close to silliness.
 

For example , I'd want a full dragonish class in the Draconomicon for 5e. The dragon sorcerer only wets its feat in elemental magic, supernatural fear, and other dragon stuff. A full dragon disciple class with dragon shaman and fire adepts subclasses would make sense. Complaining about a dragon class not matching a Draconomicon is close to silliness.

I hope that they would sell the classes separately. To me, your suggestion would almost as bad as WOTC requiring one to purchase their adventure paths just to get stats for Tiamat or the the Demon Princes . The difference is that under your suggestion, people like myself would have to pay for classes that they don't want to just to get information more dragons.
 

Frankly, the only thing I miss is the 1E AD&D UA Cavalier. I loved loved LOOOOOVED playing those. I'd play one in a second in 5e. I haven't looked, but I'm sure there's a way to spec out a 5e Fighter with feats to accomplish that.
There's not much for mounted combat but aside from that, IIRC, the Cavalier seemed like it was just a fighter who was better with traditional knightly weapons and paid for that by not being allowed to use other weapons. Kinda like the OA classes that were each like some corresponding class but slightly better. Oh, and the Cavalier could get special armor that absorbed damage.

But, sure: Noble background, Fighter, Champion archetype, Heavy Armor Mastery as soon as you can take a feat, and properly kitted out should be pretty close. Should be doable in not much more than 4 levels (depending on how successful you are getting the cash for the best heavy armor & a warhorse). You could define Bonds to represent your ideals of Chivalry, and maybe pick up a little inspiration when you disdained using a crossbow even when it would have been the best course of action or the like.

At best they'd make something that satisfied no "true fan" of a previous edition. Why? Because the editions were too different. The game completely changed when character generation went from class-based with lots of classes to skill-and-feat-based, with basically four classes you can customize ad infinitum.
What parallel universe did that happen in?

It's pretty clear to me, from comments on these fora, that it's about validation: I want this thing, and you have to give it to me!
Or "don't want it, WotC must deny it to everyone," yes. There's folk who just want to be able to play the character they want at the moment or run the campaign they have in mind, in the current edition of their favorite game, then there's folk who feel they know what that game is 'really' supposed to be, feel proprietary about it, and they need those beliefs validated.
 

Well I see it this way.

New classes can appear in books when appropriate. Esppically if a book realises variants and substems that have major themes.

For example , I'd want a full dragonish class in the Draconomicon for 5e. The dragon sorcerer only wets its feat in elemental magic, supernatural fear, and other dragon stuff. A full dragon disciple class with dragon shaman and fire adepts subclasses would make sense. Complaining about a dragon class not matching a Draconomicon is close to silliness.

Dragon Disciple? Psssshhh! Give me a full on DRAGON class like in 2e where you have to collect X amount of gold in addition to X amount of experience to level up to the next age category. :p
 

Or "don't want it, WotC must deny it to everyone," yes. There's folk who just want to be able to play the character they want at the moment or run the campaign they have in mind, in the current edition of their favorite game, then there's folk who feel they know what that game is 'really' supposed to be, feel proprietary about it, and they need those beliefs validated.

My absolutely favorite character in any edition of D&D that I have ever played was my Tiefling Psion/Vampire from 4e. Most people tell me to go play V:tM when I ask when the Vampire class is coming back to this edition so I can play my favorite character from previous D&D in 5e. :/
 

I hope that they would sell the classes separately. To me, your suggestion would almost as bad as WOTC requiring one to purchase their adventure paths just to get stats for Tiamat or the the Demon Princes . The difference is that under your suggestion, people like myself would have to pay for classes that they don't want to just to get information more dragons.

No. You're paying for info about dragons.

There's only 2 ways your getting it.
A free article.
Part of a book.

If WotC chooses to put it in a book, they'll have to fill it with enough to get enough people to buy it to make a profit. It's better that they put all the dragon stuff together than spread it out over many books.
 

What parallel universe did that happen in?

The universe in which you and I live. I saw it happen. I was there. Of course, that's just my analysis of what happened.

Or "don't want it, WotC must deny it to everyone," yes. There's folk who just want to be able to play the character they want at the moment or run the campaign they have in mind, in the current edition of their favorite game, then there's folk who feel they know what that game is 'really' supposed to be, feel proprietary about it, and they need those beliefs validated.

Yes, precisely! I apologize for throwing it all to one side.
 


Saying the Battlemaster is a Warlord is like saying the Arcane Trickster is a Wizard - if it had only 3 wizard spells on it's list and they were all 1st level.
It does everything you'd want a basic warlord to do, it just doesn't do them often. But, other than commander warlords - which were not an official build in any published book - warlords relied on making attacks for themselves. Which in 5e translates into straight attacks. At-will powers aren't a thing for martial classes, only dailies and (effectively) encounters.

I know, it wasn't /technically/ a class or even a sub-class. You'd think it'd've rated at least a 'Wild Talent' feat or something in that case. It'd also be reasonable to think it'd get in the line for the Advanced Game behind the Warlord, which was.

Anyway, it's in the pipeline now, so that's a good thing for psionics fans.
I think they were choosing to hold back psionics until they could go in rather than just giving an unsatisfying tease (apart from content that they needed feedback and playtested). Which I can understand. Better to go all in than have a single small feat. (Plus, if you chose the right spell Magical Adept can work just fine with a flavour tweak.)

Neither was Camber of Culdi a religious fanatic calling for the murder of writers or other acts of terror against other civilians. But we can still play Clerics.

How the media chooses to translate the title of some lunatic has no bearing on what names we can use for classes in D&D.
Cleric is largely neutral in tone. There can be good or bad. Warlord is used exclusively negatively.
And it's not the media co-opting the term. That's just the modern usage of the term. There are no good warlords and haven't been in a hundred years. You'll notice the complete absence of the term "warlord" in the advertising for the John Carter movie.

But, unlike alternatives, like Marshal, doesn't imply a rank in a military hierarchy, nor legitimate authority. Nor does D&D stick remotely to actual definitions of class names. The Sorcerer doesn't conjure up spirits for instance.
Warlord does imply rank. It's right there in the definition: military leader/commander. Warlord means nothing else. Not leader of soldiers or a militia, not leader of warriors or troops, but leader of the military. Rank is being implied with as much subtly as a brick to the head.
Marshal at least has some variant uses along with the verb usage (to arrange in proper order; set out in an orderly manner; to array, as for battle.) Ditto "commander".

Warlord was a contentious name when the class was announced, well before the books were released/leaked and the edition war really got started.

If they're going to present 5e as being for everyone who's ever loved D&D, they need to avoid the appearance of taking sides.
Putting in a class explicitly to placate a single small fraction of the group is very much taking a side.

Including it might seem like 'catering to 4vengers' excluding it does seem like 'catering to h4ters.' Thing is, is 5e supposed to be exclusionary or inclusive?
Inclusive means being welcoming and not pushing people away, not catering to their every whim. They included warlord-esque maneuvers in the battlemaster. That was pretty darn inclusive right there.

You can't make everyone happy all the time, and trying to do so only leads to frustration and making other people unhappy. You can set a place for everyone at the table, but you can't make them sit. If you made an honest effort to accommodate everyone, and someone still wants to sit elsewhere, then that choice is on them.

Including it as an optional class outside the Standard Game would seem a reasonable compromise.
How would a class option "outside the Standard Game" be released exactly? As an UA article? Would a unplaytested, unformatting class really satisfy you? Maybe a separate exclusive PDF like the Elemental Evil Player Companion?
And how is that really different from the myriad homebrew warlords available, which have received significant more attention and manhours put into their creation?

Also... how is it a compromise? The warlord fans are getting exactly what they want (a warlord class) while everyone else who doesn't want a warlord class still has to know that WotC put time and money and hours and playtesting into content they'll never, every use. It means once side gets something rather than content being produced that at least has the potential to appeal to everyone.

The appearance WotC should try to avoid is of WotC, itself taking sides, not of edition warring among folks posting on the forum today (also a bad thing, of course), which they can't control - and have, coincidentally, distanced themselves from by giving up their own forms.

The edition war already happened, the Warlord was a favorite target of h4ters. No matter how much or little we may raise the level of discourse, now, that's already happened. And WotC shouldn't go giving a big high-five to the h4ters of 2008-12 by pointedly excluding the Warlord they h4ted so much from 5e forever.
But neither are they obligated to create a class they don't like or feel doesn't works just to avoid accommodating h4ters. If they feel something they designed and worked on was unsatisfactory, they have every right to choose not to update it.
Assuming they even know the warlord debates are part of the edition wars. It's not like they spend their free time cruising message boards like us. D&D is their day job, they likely go home and look at other things rather than effectively do work in their own time.

2 or 3, yes, compared to over 300 for the Warlord.

So less than <1% of the Warlord was nicked by the Battlemaster. They could plausibly label it 'warlord free.'
By that argument they didn't update the fighter, as there's only 17 battlemaster maneuvers compared to the 417 fighter powers. That's 4%. Not much.

Even if they had made the warlord it's own class and given it as many pages as the fighter, it's still only have 34-odd maneuvers. Still a fraction of the 4e numbers.
That's assuming they bothered to add many and not just keep the number low and allow more uses of the limited maneuvers. Really, a theoretical warlord would likely only know a dozen manuevers (to avoid the "hand size" problem) so lots of maneuvers are unneeded; if a warlord knows 12 then 24 maneuvers means two L20 warlords could be completely different.
Plus, there's only so many ideas for maneuvers. After a couple dozen they become super situation or finicky. I doubt I could think of more than a half-dozen new warlord powers that weren't variations.

At least, here we can agree: a 5e Warlord would potentially have a lot /more/ to it than the original Warlord. It's the case with a lot of 5e classes (and even sub-classes), like the a fore-mentioned Illusionist & Assassin, for instance.
But a 5e "maneuver master" class would still potentially only have a warlord subclass. With other subclasses doing very different things.
And it's still unlikely to do EVERYTHING the 4e warlord did, which is apparently a prerequisite for it being a warlord. So it'd *still* be unacceptable to many of the "warlord fans".
And it's still unlikely to include options like healing or reviving fallen players from a distance.

So, if WotC were to do such a class, they'd spend days working on the class, week (if not months) playtesting, and there's *still* be a vocal minority going "We want a real warlord!" So it's really a "why bother??" situation. A design Kobayashi Maru.
 

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