What Cool Things Should the Rules Let You Do?

[Slife]

Well, it looks like 4e is focusing a lot on the core gameplay element (Killing things and taking their stuff). But the focus appears to be a bit lopsided on the killing things half.

I want new ways to take stuff from things. Looting a corpse is boring.

 

[Gentlegamer]

As long as there is a human DM refereeing the game, the players' attempted actions are not limited by the written rules. Of course, it is good if the written rules have a framework to assist the DM in adjudicating unexpected, improvised actions.

 

[mmadsen]

I want new ways to take stuff from things.

You joke, but I remember wanting good rules for a monkey to pounce on a character and steal his magic amulet -- something that seemed perfectly reasonable for the little rascal to get away with.

 

[Slife]

You joke, but I remember wanting good rules for a monkey to pounce on a character and steal his magic amulet -- something that seemed perfectly reasonable for the little rascal to get away with.

Sleight of hand DC 20. With a possible circumstance bonus/penalty.

 

[mmadsen]

Sleight of hand DC 20. With a possible circumstance bonus/penalty.

Which the monkey -- or imp, or whatever -- would not succeed at, especially in combat, even though I could easily imagine it happening in a book or movie.

 

[mmadsen]

As long as there is a human DM refereeing the game, the players' attempted actions are not limited by the written rules. Of course, it is good if the written rules have a framework to assist the DM in adjudicating unexpected, improvised actions.

I think we see, again and again, that players want to perform some kind of "called shots", but the rules don't offer much support there -- and they bring a lot of restrictions, really.

 

[Hairfoot]

both real and fictional fights are chaotic, with unpredictable openings for unusual moves. How often is kicking the other guy your best option in the game when you're holding a rapier?

I've always believed the abstracted "combat round" assumed all of these things were happening, allowing players and DMs to include them in the narrative. A low-HP blow might be a weak rapier stab, but if you land a critical, it might be a spectacular godge-groin-kick-impalement moment.

How about pulling a foe's cloak over his head?

Feint or improved feint.

Or punching him with your off hand?

Abstract round again.

Or clothes-lining a different foe as he lunges at your ally?

Attack of opportunity + trip.



That's how I'd run it, anyway.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I think we see, again and again, that players want to perform some kind of "called shots", but the rules don't offer much support there -- and they bring a lot of restrictions, really.

Aren't Disarm and Sunder attempts a type of "called shot" . . ? Perhaps those mechanics could be used to help DMs adjudicate such attempted actions.

Or perhaps an AC bonus given to the opponent based on what location is being targeted.

The DM has more options for adjudicating an attempted action than saying "there isn't a specific rule for it, so you can't try it." It's one of the defining characteristics of a role-playing game.

 

[Slife]

Which the monkey -- or imp, or whatever -- would not succeed at, especially in combat, even though I could easily imagine it happening in a book or movie.

Consistently? Maybe not. With a decent chance of success? Certainly.

The example monkey has a 15 dex, with no ranks in sleight of hand. But we can redistribute skill points. Let's give it four ranks. Now, monkeys could be deft of hand just as they are agile, so let's switch out the feat. A city-bred monkey certainly wouldn't be as adept at climbing natural objects, but would be better at dealing with ropes and stealing food. That's another +2.

So without any circumstance bonuses/penalties, we get a bonus of (2+4+2) +8 against a dc 20 check. That means 12 or higher succeeds. So about half the time the monkey steals the object.

You could bump the bonus up to +11 with skill focus instead of deft of hand, and with some sort of masterwork gimmick to make it easier. Need the bonus only once? Use a psionic skill shard (which ranges from a +1 bonus for 10 gp to a +10 bonus for 1,000 gp). You could guarantee success.

An imp would be much better at doing this.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Just give the monkey a +15 racial bonus to Sleight of Hand.