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<blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 8882445" data-attributes="member: 2303">In the spirit of the thread's origin, one thing I feel makes a game more dungeon-crawling is to emphasize the loot. In 1E you got xp from gold, which made the game very objective-oriented. You did not want to fight monsters, you wanted to steal their gold, preferably without them noticing. Heist-style play. I thing this is a great angle for dungeons - but perhaps not one where tracking water supplies is what matters.If everyone interpreted dim light like you do, I would see no problem. But in a level of light that does not in itself let people use Stealth (it merely disadvantages Perception), I see dim light as murk rather than almost darkness. However, your reading, with appropriate penalties in dim light, is almost the same as how I read darkness, so we sort of agree there.To me, this is a dungeon survival boardgame, not a role-playing game. Which is my general issue with procedural games like Mouse Guard (the only game of this type I actually played). To me these are games where you manipulates elements of game mechanics rather than role-playing games. Different takes for different folks.The story was not at all obvious in the older adventures. I recalling meeting the vampire in Lost Caves of Tsojcant and admiring the armor, but not knowing or caring who wore it. It didn't matter, just smite.I feel this has improved vastly, and much of this was Paizo's Dungeon Magazine's doing. They made adventures where the plot was easily accessible and mattered, and set the style for many adventures.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Starfox, post: 8882445, member: 2303"] In the spirit of the thread's origin, one thing I feel makes a game more dungeon-crawling is to emphasize the loot. In 1E you got xp from gold, which made the game very objective-oriented. You did not want to fight monsters, you wanted to steal their gold, preferably without them noticing. Heist-style play. I thing this is a great angle for dungeons - but perhaps not one where tracking water supplies is what matters. If everyone interpreted dim light like you do, I would see no problem. But in a level of light that does not in itself let people use Stealth (it merely disadvantages Perception), I see dim light as murk rather than almost darkness. However, your reading, with appropriate penalties in dim light, is almost the same as how I read darkness, so we sort of agree there. To me, this is a dungeon survival boardgame, not a role-playing game. Which is my general issue with procedural games like Mouse Guard (the only game of this type I actually played). To me these are games where you manipulates elements of game mechanics rather than role-playing games. Different takes for different folks. The story was not at all obvious in the older adventures. I recalling meeting the vampire in Lost Caves of Tsojcant and admiring the armor, but not knowing or caring who wore it. It didn't matter, just smite. I feel this has improved vastly, and much of this was Paizo's Dungeon Magazine's doing. They made adventures where the plot was easily accessible and mattered, and set the style for many adventures. [/QUOTE]

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