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What could One D&D do to bring the game back to the dungeon?
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<blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 8883992" data-attributes="member: 2303"><p>What makes this gameist is that your motivation is that of the player, not the character. The character wants to succeed, but the player wishes their own character to first fail and only then succeed. The player's role goes from protagonist to author and the game is third person instead of first person. This can happen in any game, but having game mechanics actually reward it is IMO to go too far. It might work both from a gameist and simulationist perspective, but makes a poor narrative.</p><p></p><p>Since I already failed my resolve as set in my previous post I might as well talk about the other thing that annoyed me in Mouse Guard. More advanced conflicts are resolved in a rock-paper-scissors game where you play multiple rounds. You basically always take at least a little "damage" in this game. Final success is determined by how little damage you have taken at the end. This is achieved by playing a rest-type move in the game in your penultimate move. The task as a player is to clothe this in narrative language. That is, the rules drive the narrative rather than the narrative using the rules to drive the action. Also gamist IMNSHO. </p><p></p><p>These are first impressions after one session and subsequently reading the rules. I would not mind trying out Mouse Guard (et al) more to see if these first impressions hold, and this might not be true in similar games like Torchbearer.</p><p></p><p>No set of game rules can really prevent role-playing. Little kids can role-play the boot in Monopoly. What rules can do is formalize role-play. My first experience of this was in Pendragon, and I was charmed, especially by passions and inspiration. But after several years of play and introducing a magic system, we left Pendragon behind - we had learned to game the system and the personality traits got to the point where they feel childish. Reading Permeton's log from Torchbearer, I got similar wibes, particularily when Fea-bella read the cursed summoning runes. Then she made a Will check to stop reading. This is where I frown. In a narrative game, it ought to be Fea-bella's player who decides how far to play her obsession. I don't hate that this was decided by a die roll, but it seems like a lost narrative opportunity. I love it when players make self-destructive decisions like this, playing their characters to the hilt - but I would try to avoid having the rules force it on them.</p><p></p><p>I may use the terms gamist, narrative, simulationist here, but I do so as common language, not in the NTS sense that I never agreed with. I strive to explain my opinions here, not to convince anyone else. Again, different takes for different folks, and that is how it should be. Also, I feel this has become a threadnap, so I think we should call it a day on this subtopic or create a new thread.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Starfox, post: 8883992, member: 2303"] What makes this gameist is that your motivation is that of the player, not the character. The character wants to succeed, but the player wishes their own character to first fail and only then succeed. The player's role goes from protagonist to author and the game is third person instead of first person. This can happen in any game, but having game mechanics actually reward it is IMO to go too far. It might work both from a gameist and simulationist perspective, but makes a poor narrative. Since I already failed my resolve as set in my previous post I might as well talk about the other thing that annoyed me in Mouse Guard. More advanced conflicts are resolved in a rock-paper-scissors game where you play multiple rounds. You basically always take at least a little "damage" in this game. Final success is determined by how little damage you have taken at the end. This is achieved by playing a rest-type move in the game in your penultimate move. The task as a player is to clothe this in narrative language. That is, the rules drive the narrative rather than the narrative using the rules to drive the action. Also gamist IMNSHO. These are first impressions after one session and subsequently reading the rules. I would not mind trying out Mouse Guard (et al) more to see if these first impressions hold, and this might not be true in similar games like Torchbearer. No set of game rules can really prevent role-playing. Little kids can role-play the boot in Monopoly. What rules can do is formalize role-play. My first experience of this was in Pendragon, and I was charmed, especially by passions and inspiration. But after several years of play and introducing a magic system, we left Pendragon behind - we had learned to game the system and the personality traits got to the point where they feel childish. Reading Permeton's log from Torchbearer, I got similar wibes, particularily when Fea-bella read the cursed summoning runes. Then she made a Will check to stop reading. This is where I frown. In a narrative game, it ought to be Fea-bella's player who decides how far to play her obsession. I don't hate that this was decided by a die roll, but it seems like a lost narrative opportunity. I love it when players make self-destructive decisions like this, playing their characters to the hilt - but I would try to avoid having the rules force it on them. I may use the terms gamist, narrative, simulationist here, but I do so as common language, not in the NTS sense that I never agreed with. I strive to explain my opinions here, not to convince anyone else. Again, different takes for different folks, and that is how it should be. Also, I feel this has become a threadnap, so I think we should call it a day on this subtopic or create a new thread. [/QUOTE]
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What could One D&D do to bring the game back to the dungeon?
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