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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8655861" data-attributes="member: 87792">Partly Fortune in the Middle. I googled for your 4e stories about your campaign's paladin but couldn't find themIt depends what you mean by "some sort of class system" because yes there is bound to be some attractor if you point buy. But the core problem isn't the class system but the level system that says that everyone with given stats is going to gain expertise in almost the same way. Three famous examples that have class-like systems but have shattered the level system for much more organic growth are Apocalypse World's playbooks, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay's Career system, and Star Wars: Edge of Empire/Genesys' Career system.So what he wanted was to be brainwashed beyond what was possible in the world, literally changing his personality in an irrevocable way based off a snap decision that erased part of his old experiences. This is an understandable wish but actually doing so is a form of suicide and any good or even neutral deity should have refused the request. (And a chaotic one wouldn't have followed through completely on general principles).I would be too!Was that what the player was trying to do or was it what the character was trying to do?That said I've had characters change class (as opposed to a different mechanical representation of who they were now) but it was in their backstory. In a fairly recent game I was playing a 50 year old farmer barbarian - but his backstory was that he had been a wizard adventurer in his 20s and completely burned his magic out by grounding an entire ritual through his own magical channels. And although he had been famous and successful the looks of pity burned. So he retired to farming on the borderlands and now these whippersnappers need help. And he might never cast another spell again but he's strong and some of the magical channels were regrowing in his body. So he started from level 1 because his old class just didn't work. And yes it was traumatic.The problem with paladins is that alignment just is not a good representation of ethos. And no clerics do not work fine with an alignment restriction; they should start with an alignment close to that of their deities but putting hard coded alignment in there both restricts fall narratives and infiltrator narratives.Oberoni Fallacy. When you say "it's a pretty simple workaround" what you mean is "the rules don't actually support this".As a DM I'm a lot less concerned about NPC agency than I am PC agency. I have so many NPCs. If you can have morale mechanics (and IMO modern D&D would be better with them) you can have surrender mechanics.Fate gives you abstract resource points which the player determines how to spend on anything with the appropriate mechanical weight set up (like relationships). The player decides where to spend the points, but emotional connections are a significant way of spending them. And they gain the resource points when something (like relationships or character flaws) is used against the character - or they can spend a point of their own to refuse. Because these are abstract how you use them is up to you the player and it's entirely possible to set them up as pure emotional connections - or pure Vampire: the Masquerade style Blood Points if you pick the right aspects. Most players go for "don't sweat the small stuff and this is only an approximation".And because you get fate points for aspects going against you it's likely you'll find a character that suffers from alcoholism the night before the big event asking for "jusht one more hic [fate point]. I can hic handle it." And on the day for Dutch Courage. Which will lead to trouble if you get one - but isn't so antisocial for the table as it is in D&D.</blockquote>

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