What defines a theme vs a class vs a background?

[Minigiant]

Background is your base non-combat abilities
If the aspect is just a collection of skills or a minor societal trait with no combat application, it's a background.

Theme is your main combat adjustment
If the aspect is mostly a combat tweak, a few feats, a tactical role, or strategic facilitation,, it's a theme.

Class is your main character gimmick
If the major shtick is large, is multifaceted, or a subsystem of its own, it is best suited as a class.

 

[Ellington]

A theme ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SkoD2CIakQ]Tain't What You Do - Jimmy Lunceford - YouTube[/ame]

Your class is what you do.
Your theme is how you do it.
Your background is why you do it.

 

[rounser]

For instance, I like the idea of a necromancer theme that alters all of your spells in some minor way. For instance, when you damage a creature with a spell you get some small healing. Or, if you kill a creature with a spell it pops back up as a skeleton or zombie.

This strikes me as more mechanical experimentation and brinkmanship. The 5E I'd be interested in would be one of consolidation, and proven approaches. The time for experimentation and monkeyage with neat ideas that warp the game's foundation under the D&D banner was 4E, and IMO it has past.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Well, to start off, a knight (like sage), is a background -- not a theme.

-KS

It was just an example... And I based my example off of this:

Backgrounds mentioned: Gladiator, Bureaucrat, Awakened (psionic), Priest, Occultist, Commoner, Bereaved, Sage, Knight of the Watch, Blackmoor, Thay, Harper, Dustmen, Fated, Hamonium, Thief, Soldier.

and this

Themes such as commoner, noble, knight, apprentice

Which are both found HERE on ENWorld...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

As a practical matter, themes can be thought of as thought of as sub-classes (although I think the designers are hoping to define themes more broadly than touching only one class as much as possible.)

"Your class will suggest a theme, but we expect you to choose whatever theme you like. The suggested theme for a fighter might be Slayer, while the suggested theme for a wizard might be Mystic."

Also:

"1st-level Themes mentioned: Slayer, Mystic, Guardian, Lurker, Leader, Sharpshooter, Skirmisher, Tempest, Weapon Master, Wild Talent, Domain Themes, Avenger, Werewolf, Revenant, Disciple of Tenser, Alchemist, Red Wizard, Commoner, Noble, Knight, Apprentice, Planetouched, Deva, Pub-Crawler, Spy"

As already mentioned, it seems that themes primarily affect feat-like abilities while backgrounds affect skills.

 

[KidSnide]

It was just an example... And I based my example off of this:

Themes such as commoner, noble, knight, apprentice

I'm pretty sure those examples are from a version of the playtest rules before they broke theme and background into two separate concepts. Today, I don't think any of those would be themes. In fact, knight (your example) is explicitly a background in the current public playtest.

-KS

 

[RigaMortus2]

Characters almost never play as well as you believe them to do when you build them. You really know how effective your character is, after you were thrown into the adventure.

QFT! I've run into this myself... often Sometimes good results, sometimes bad results.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Maybe I wasn't as clear in the OP as I wanted to be. I get the difference between class, background and theme.

I am more or less asking, what makes the Knight a theme and not a background or a class of their own? Why shouldn't a Paladin be a theme instead of a class?

1st-level Themes mentioned: Slayer, Mystic, Guardian, Lurker, Leader, Sharpshooter, Skirmisher, Tempest, Weapon Master, Wild Talent, Domain Themes, Avenger, Werewolf, Revenant, Disciple of Tenser, Alchemist, Red Wizard, Commoner, Noble, Knight, Apprentice, Planetouched, Deva, Pub-Crawler, Spy

Look at Alchemist... This is listed as a theme. I see this more of a background. Its "what they do"? Its how you make a living. Its your job. Its what you do in your off time (I mix chemcicals).

Werewolf as a theme? I could buy into that... But I don't see Werewolf as a class, race, theme or background. But lets stick with theme. That means, you can never have a person who is both an Alchemist and a Werewolf. You'll never have a Commoner turned into a Werewolf as they are both themes.

I know this is still early stages, and anything can change, including allowing PCs to have multiple themes, which would make one character "stronger" over another had they not also selected the same amount of themes... maybe not necessarily "stronger" but one person will have a slight advantage over the other.

Actually, if you did allow 2 themes, then whats to stop someone from picking Commoner and Noble? Two completely opposite things... Actually, now that I think about it, it would be kind of cool. Maybe you are a Noble tired of the pressures of the noble life, and hide out as a common folk (The Prince and the Pauper). So ok, maybe I can see multiple themes working (of allowed)...

So that is basically what I am asking... What makes a Knight a theme and NOT a background, or a class all its own? (Knight is just the easiest to pick, could be said about any of them really, Alchemist, Commoner, Noble...)

 

[chitzk0i]

Look at Alchemist... This is listed as a theme. I see this more of a background. Its "what they do"? Its how you make a living. Its your job. Its what you do in your off time (I mix chemcicals).

Ok. What skill bonuses or noncombat bennies would an alchemist get? OTOH, as a theme, alchemists would probably get to mix chemicals and use them in game, the same way the healer them lets you make healer's kits and potions.

Werewolf as a theme? I could buy into that... But I don't see Werewolf as a class, race, theme or background. But lets stick with theme. That means, you can never have a person who is both an Alchemist and a Werewolf. You'll never have a Commoner turned into a Werewolf as they are both themes.

Commoner is a background. Look at the rogue pregen. That means you can totally have a commoner werewolf.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Early dev-chatter indicates multiple themes is a given. So an Alchemist/Werewolf would have to choose one at 1st and wait for the other.

Ideally, the rules will have an equitable solution for a dual-theme 1st level character... but house-ruling it doesn't seem so difficult either. You get both of your 1st level feats to start, you alternate thereafter, and you end up finishing both themes at the same level you'd end up having finished two themes anyway. It's the equivalent of taking a second 1st level theme at 6th level and getting the benefits a little front-loaded.