What deities values courage and sacrifice the most?

[Cryptic]

I ask this question because in my campaign I try to benefit PCs that uphold these characteristics. D&D can often turn into a game where the PCs try to hoard everything and greed is an attribute. And let's be honest, its really simple, greedy PCs attain more gold and items usually, where as strictly good aligned PCs are held to higher moral standards. PCs eventually come to ask the question "what's in it for me?" Even a group of would-be do gooders turn into greedy players after some time. The only way I can get PCs to do anything w/o any obvious financial or item reward is to command them to by their superiors or threaten them with penalties.

Now trying to get away from the aspect of greediness, I tend to think the highest benefit should be rewarded to courage and sacrifice. Can you imagine a PC sacrificing himself to save the rest of the party? I've never came close to that situation in actual game play. Everyone thinks of themselves first, even if their character class demands not to. I'd like to instill that there's some benefit to playing your character heroically, to encourage taking courageous stands and even sacrificing your PC for the good of the group. The obvious question is what good is death? But I think if I had a PC lay down his life I'd like to bring him back. What deity would bring back someone who died a good death like that? I'm sorry if this subject got a little convoluted, but I'd just like to make my players play their characters like the "heros" they're supposed to be, not greedy self-interested cowards.

Any thoughts?

 

[Runesong42]

One easy solution would be to stop giving gold and items as rewards. There are many other ways to reward PC's for quests: land, titles, feats, skills, fame, recognition, NPC information, NPC cohorts/followers... one of my characters was "rewarded" with a bride, another was rewarded with a teacher to teach him a "free" feat.

I mean, there's nothing *wrong* with PC's only motivation being gold and items; many 'good' characters ply their teade for gold. But what if the PC's run out of things to do? If they keep turning down adventure after adventure for lack of obvious rewards, start playing up OTHER NPC parties who reap their own rewards.

Example: The call is set out for people to help colonize and develop a small barony by clearing out a few kobold tribes. The local lord commands the respect of all his followers and peoples, and many are willing to do it out of loyalty. The PC's strut up and ask "what's in it for us?" The captain of the guards sneers and tells them that a house will be provided for each of the families that helps out. The PC's, not smelling gold, say 'forget it' and move on.
Later, the PC's hear about the new village through the local grapevine. Turns out that one of the kobold tribes had a map to some sort of stash. Some of the town guards followed the map and discovered a natural deposit of gems. They brought the information back to the lord, who was so grateful, he let them keep 5000 gp worth of gems. The warriors split the take between themselves, and are now called upon by the local lord on a regular basis as a "crack troop" of explorers. Heck, maybe they even gain PC levels as a result. Now the troop hunts monsters and treasure on a regular basis, AND earns a regular salary for doing so under the employ of the lord.

Meanwhile, the PC's are kicking themselves for ignoring such an obvious adventure hook.

All that aside, though, seems that there are very few deities that would simply bring someone back to life just for dying a hero's death. If the dying hero wasn't a regular worshipper of said deity, the deity would be less than insipred to reurn him to life... unless... the deity had specific plans for said hero. Depending on your game world, any deity that has Sacrifice in their dominion would work, as would Justice, or perhaps some other Warrior-God type. In order for your PC's to self-sacrifice, they must be in a position of self-sacrifice... I would pick one of the players and pull him aside, inform him that there will be special rewards for being a hero... and then see if he bites. Remember, you're asking your player to deliberately kill off their PC to make a point, so make the reward good.

One great idea for fallen heroes can be taken from the old 1st ed. Oriental Adventures. I forget exactly how it worked, but if your PC died and had a lot of honour points, the next character the player made would have bonuses to their stats and a better chance of starting with more wealth. Sounds like this might very well be what you could start having your players aspire to. Acquire "hero points" for good deeds/actions, and in the next life, their next PC gets all sorts of goodies. Or, even have it affect them in their present PC life; people with high honour are more often approached by important NPCs for help and advice, others welcome them into inns and buy them drinks, and as they gain power and infuence, they start generating an income.

Well, to sum up:
- Rewards don't always have to be "here's the stuff you get for doing something".
- If players won't fall for stories without cash or items as payment, make others do so.
- Reward heroes for being heroic, in this life and the next.

 

[kirinke]

[sblock]Now trying to get away from the aspect of greediness, I tend to think the highest benefit should be rewarded to courage and sacrifice. Can you imagine a PC sacrificing himself to save the rest of the party? I've never came close to that situation in actual game play. Everyone thinks of themselves first, even if their character class demands not to. I'd like to instill that there's some benefit to playing your character heroically, to encourage taking courageous stands and even sacrificing your PC for the good of the group. The obvious question is what good is death? But I think if I had a PC lay down his life I'd like to bring him back. What deity would bring back someone who died a good death like that? I'm sorry if this subject got a little convoluted, but I'd just like to make my players play their characters like the "heros" they're supposed to be, not greedy self-interested cowards.[/sblock]

This depends on the group in question. I mean, let's take a look at the previous encounter my last group had.

We were hired by a glass merchant to escort him to a fair hosted by some wood elves. During the course of the adventure, our employer was attacked via dream by a nighthag who had set up shop under the wood elve's village. During the fight with the nighthag, my character went head to toe with the fiend, opening herself up to attack in an attempt to push the nighthag through the portal.

Now this didn't work and nearly killed my character. At the time, she thought it was worth the risk and went in knowing she was probably going to get killed. When the party's druid brought her back to 5 hit points, her next action was to lob a flask of holy water at the fiend. This action, in conjunction with the other's attacking the creature, forced her to flee through the portal. We did find some nice loot from the nighthag's lair too. Our party wizard closed the portal and we went back to the fair to speak with the elves.

We found out that the elves had been using the fair they had set up as a lure to attract innocents into the area. Those innocents would then be captured by the nighthag, who would then leave the elven village alone. Our group actually turned down 200 platinum pieces the elves offered as a reward for taking care of the fiend, because we thought that the money was bloodmoney and not worthy of us.

Tis the principle of the thing. And we'd do it again to.

 

[Voadam]

Gruumsh. Courage in battle, sacrifice your eye to your god. Inspires foaming self sacrificing fanaticism in the devotees battles against their god decreed enemies.

 

[Torm]

Start the party off with a solid reputation of being noble, trustworthy, and generous - maybe they'll be less likely to squander such a rep, even if they wouldn't earn it themselves from scratch? Maybe add an NPC Scribe or low level Bard to the party, who is chronicling the party's adventures for a local noble, or some such. They'd have to at least make it look good.

 

[Jdvn1]

Pelor?

But what are you going to do, force your characters to follow a particular deity? Not a good idea, I think. I recently saw a couple of the Star Wars movies, so what comes to mind is Yoda. Introduce a Yoda-like character to train them.

Or, failing that, how about showing them the results of their greediness? Or have them go on an adventure specifically designed to help people? There could be a little kid with big, watery eyes -- "Are you going to make the bad men go away, mister?" Show them an impoverished town, in dire need of help. See if they'll spend money to help people other than themselves.

 

[kirinke]

Ilmater, the crying god -> endurance, suffering, martyrdom, perseverance

 

[Bront]

We had one character, a questionable paladin, who was never unpaladin like, just was a bit more of "What's in it for me?" than all the other characters.

So, when we had a new player join, this player decided to create a character that looked up to paladins as noble, selfless and brave. It was (and still is) quite fun to see him occasionaly ask "Is that realy paladin like?"

Sometimes it's the players who are selfish, and that's how they like to play. Nothing wrong with that, and if they have fun, then no problem.

My suggestion, throw them on a truely noble long term quest, and throw money and stuff at them durring the treck. They may develope the selfless streak durring the journy, especialy when they already have more money and gear than they could realy ever need.