D&D 3E/3.5 What do you ban? (3.5)

[JamesonCourage]

You tried to rein them in by taking away their items or abilities, rather than like...talk it out and come up with a solution? No offense, but you sound like a horrible DM.

Let's keep this civil. There's no way to say this to somebody without meaning offense. Let's all try to use constructive terms when we don't agree with someone (which you did pretty well in the rest of your post, to your credit). Instead, let's try to say something like: "I don't like the idea of a DM who tries to gimp his players by taking away something he allowed in the first place. It just doesn't seem fair. Talking to them about it out of game, and working something out that everyone can agree on and have fun with seem like the way to go. YMMV."

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Let's keep this civil. There's no way to say this to somebody without meaning offense. Let's all try to use constructive terms when we don't agree with someone (which you did pretty well in the rest of your post, to your credit). Instead, let's try to say something like: "I don't like the idea of a DM who tries to gimp his players by taking away something he allowed in the first place. It just doesn't seem fair. Talking to them about it out of game, and working something out that everyone can agree on and have fun with seem like the way to go. YMMV."

Sorry, your version is better, I shouldn't have said that.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Sorry, your version is better, I shouldn't have said that.

I just want everyone to be able to have a nice conversation... especially with moderators already spending time in this thread

 

[CuRoi]

Stop. Right there. No. Just. Say. No. NO! Don't have the sourcebook? No splatbook rule for you! That is seriously askig for trouble, not just trying tolook up what something does, but also forgetting (innocently or intentionally) some aspect of the ability that makes it less good than the player seems to remember.

Of course, even having the books on hand is no garauntee. I have sat across from a player and had them read the entry for a spell / power / feat and gloss important aspects or "misread" key bits. I've had players do this with core rules as well. I will then say "oh , really, that sounds amazing, can I see" then read the passage aloud adding in the glossed bits so the whole table can give their take. So as long as I can read something and share it with the group for an interpretation, I'm pretty good with that.

However, it's another reason I try to run pretty vanilla rules campaigns (and 41 flavors campaign background/setting). No matter how accomplished someone claims to be with the rules, if you throw in everything plus the kitchen sink, you always waste valuable time looking for the wrench on a regular basis.

Point buy isn't power gamer heaven, it's FAIR. If anything, rolling is power gamer heaven. With PB, the DM controls how strong the PCs start out as, with rolling it's random and a person could end up with very high rolls. In any case the most powerful classes in the game only care about having one high score ultimately (their casting stat), so any attempts to nerf ability scores IME just hurts the ones that already need help.

Second this. I always went with 4d6 drop lowest for YEARS. Recently I ran a game for a new group using that method and nearly every PC that was handed to me had at least 2 natural 18's (discounting race, magic, stat bonus). I felt bad for the guy with the normal attribute distribution. I'm not saying it couldn't happen if the dice gods were smiling down on the group, but I've rolled enough / seen enough PCs to know that getting a single natural 18 is like hitting the jackpot even with the 4d6 drop method. I didn't bother bringing it up, but I did start using point buy with that group just on principle.

I also want to make it clear though that I don't think this is an example of powergaming - just an example of good 'ol fashioned cheating : ) I like powergamers, they keep me on my toes. I don't like cheaters...I play with adults and we are playing an imaginary collaborative story game. When people cheat at something like that, I feel pretty sorry for the state of their real life cause it must be god awful.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Was it really necessary to give a listing of all those spells?

In case you've forgotten, it is actually the POINT of the thread

 

[Plane Sailing]

Hopefully we don't descend into people picking apart someone's "banned" list again.

Exactly. This thread has already taken up a lot of moderator attention. The basic premise is interesting, and by all means discuss what you think is interesting in someones banned list - but if you want to correct them, pick them apart or denigrate them, you'll find out about a different kind of banning in short order.

And I don't think anyone wants that, do they?

Thanks

 

[Alexander123]

The reason I said that was because it was a list with no explanation for why something was banned or what modifications were made and why. I think it would have been better if some reasons were given instead of a list without any explanation.

 

[MrFaust]

Well aside from some of the rude comments I do enjoy hearing what everyone else has to say about my former problem, though let me clear a few more things up. It is after all only fair.

I've been running game since 1995, so this is not my first time around the block. I NEVER had any problem before with any of my games being unbalanced or anything really, we always had a good time and for the most part focused on role playing.. That's the point isn't it? Now when we made the switch over to 3e I was still learning the rules as I worked on my campaign and i must admit I should have learned them much better before starting the campaign because I had very limited knowledge. My bad I suppose.

Now some of the guys I play with I have been playing with since those early days in 95/96 so we have been friends for quite some time. As I said I NEVER had any problems with em before. When we started this campaign (mind you we did stake a break from role playing for a few years) I expected everything to go as before, I suspected the new guys to cause any trouble more so then a old head. Well we all know I was wrong, what made this player all of a sudden go power gaming mad is above me and I cant really blame his buddy because when we first started he had some strange ideas but wasn't about being a walking tank. So at the time I didn't think it was a big deal and I didn't want to ruffle any feathers with a long time friend. Like I said at first it was once and a blue moon they would come to me with a new feat or item or spell but it quickly grew out of control and they would throw a sh*t storm when ever I turn em down. Then the few I did let go buy they managed to find loopholes I never even thought of.

That's what really got me, for all those years we had no problems and the general rule was what the DM said was law. An I am very, very lax when it comes to rules I rather just have a good story play out and have fun. I never suspected a long time friend to change gaming styles so much. Now all he complains is never have had seen 20th level or played a character till its end or be able to slay demons with a single turn... and I can understand why someone would like to do those things but that's not why we play is it? It's about the role playing, the story we as a group create and the fun of smashing in monsters heads. So in my ending the last campaign was mainly because I cant all of a sudden say hey because of two boneheads I have to not allow such and such and such, I rather just start fresh and start over with a set rule of this is cool and everything else is not. period, everyone besides those two were cool with it.

As for the point buy system, I'm not talking ability scores (I use that system too for the same reason of tired of seeing some of the guys with 2 to 3 18's..) Its some new fangled system that works with d20 that you get so many points and may use them for anything. Feats, Ability Scores, Skills, Spells, Ect with each level. As he explained it "You can make a fighter that can cast arcane and divine spells as well as have the abilities of a rogue. Think of how beefy we could get." Yeah.. Fun.

Anyhow I hope that cleaned some of that up.