What do you know? (Knowledge Skills)

[Quickleaf]

How do you use Knowledge skills in your game?

First of all, do you like the idea of "Knowledge skills"? Or should they be gotten rid of?
When a player uses a Knowledge skill do they narrate what they know to the GM?
Or does the GM explain what they know to the player?
Are the DCs of Knowledge skills listed in the campaign folder? Or at least an attempt made?
Or are the decided upon by the GM on the spot? By the player? The group?
Should knowledge skills overlap? Or be separate?
Can a Knowledge skill be used to gain a tactical advantage? To create/craft something?
Should there be more Knowledge skills? Less? Or does it depend on the genre/setting?


What got me thinking about this was a combination of 4 different things:

1. Re-reading an old post on How to make Knowledge skills more useful. I was really impressed by Stevearoo's attempt to list DCs for various knowledges in the core books.

2. Adam Scott's idea about Giving Knowledge skills tactical use use over at Rich Burlew's site.

3. My own attempts to revise/create a Knowledge skills for the Islamic empire , to increase the fun and versilimitude of a scimitar-fu game set during the early Islamic "Golden Age." Anyone with ideas, I'd love to see what you have to say!

 

[reveal]

Here's what we do for Knowledge checks to identify creatures the PCs have never seen before.

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2405079&postcount=1

 

[EricNoah]

I think knowledge skills in my games are generally plot devices. Sometimes they can give a little tactical advantage (I like it when the PCs do a little research ahead of time -- and I try to make it worth their while) or keep them from being surprised by something.

I do sometimes find it annoying when knowledge areas overlap. How many times have I said "make a Knowledge: Arcana or Spellcraft check"? In my games it's practically the same thing.

I like it when the players do flavorful things with their skills and knowledge skills fit into that category nicely.

I love the books in AU/AE that grants bonuses to knowledge checks. PCs in my games lug those books around, refer to them, etc. Fun stuff.

 

[Quickleaf]

Yeah, thanks Reveal!

I love the books in AU/AE that grants bonuses to knowledge checks. PCs in my games lug those books around, refer to them, etc. Fun stuff.

Totally. In fact, I'm taking the ArsMagica idea of "authorities", definitive sources on a specific knowledge (or specialization therein). For example, the current authority of musical theory is Abbas ibn-Firnas. He is a real world scholar who traveled to Spain (al-Andalus) to teach music. On the side he tried to craft a pair of wings to fly; after the failed experiment, while recovering from a back injury, he constructed a mechanical planetarium in which the planets actually revolved, and simulated celestial phenomenon like thunder and lightning!

A book by him might give +5 on a Perform check. If the PCs were ever to meet Abbas-ibn-Firnas and study with him, I'd consider giving them a "take 30" option for a single check. It's good to study with the best!

 

[Steverooo]

How do you use Knowledge skills in your game?

First of all, do you like the idea of "Knowledge skills"? Or should they be gotten rid of?

I like them, although I hate the "DC:10+ checks cannot be made, untrained" rule. I also hate the too-high DCs.

When a player uses a Knowledge skill do they narrate what they know to the GM? Or does the GM explain what they know to the player?

They ask if they can try to use it, or the GM asks for a roll to see if they know something. Generally, the GM dictates.

Are the DCs of Knowledge skills listed in the campaign folder? Or at least an attempt made?

Yes.

Or are the decided upon by the GM on the spot? By the player? The group?

Sometimes by the GM. Rarely (if ever) by the rest...

Should knowledge skills overlap? Or be separate?

Somewhat. As I pointed out, long ago in a Ranger thread, Survival/Wilderness Lore & Knowledge (Nature) overlap a great deal. 3.5e agrees, giving anyone with 5+ ranks in Knowledge (Nature) a +2 Synergy Bonus to Survival. This is a good thing, IMHO.

Can a Knowledge skill be used to gain a tactical advantage? To create/craft something?

Yes. This is why I recommended adding Knowledge (History) & (Architecture & Engineering) to the Fighter's skill list. History of ancient battles, and knowing the merlons from the embrassures... Engineering knowledge is often important, when crafting things (especially houses & aquaducts)!

Should there be more Knowledge skills? Less? Or does it depend on the genre/setting?

Less, if anything. Certainly no more! There aren't enough skill points to go around, as it is!

I see too many books trying to add Knowledge (Elves), Knowledge (Strategy & Tactics), when the former is obviously part of Knowledge (Local), and both could fit under Knowledge (History). (Look at what soldiers study in "War College", today!)

What got me thinking about this was a combination of 4 different things:

1. Re-reading an old post on How to make Knowledge skills more useful. I was really impressed by Stevearoo's attempt to list DCs for various knowledges in the core books.

Heh! I'm famous! (Thanks!)

 

[Lord Morte]

How do you use Knowledge skills in your game?

First of all, do you like the idea of "Knowledge skills"? Or should they be gotten rid of?

I like the idea, especially in 3.5 with its narrow selection. Why? Because having a mechanic to adjucate what the character knows can be very useful.

When a player uses a Knowledge skill do they narrate what they know to the GM?
Or does the GM explain what they know to the player?

The GM does the talking in our groups.

Are the DCs of Knowledge skills listed in the campaign folder? Or at least an attempt made?
Or are the decided upon by the GM on the spot? By the player? The group?

Typically made up by the GM on the spot or possible even in advance. Although the idea of having some typical DCs listed in the folder is a good one that I wish I'd thought of.

Should knowledge skills overlap? Or be separate?

Some overlap is inevitable. Need to remember the name of the King that ruled a thousand years ago? Both Know (history) and (nobility) are suitable, and if he was notable as a wizard or as a patron of the church or famed builders, then Know (arcana), (religion) or (architecture) may get it. RW e.g., a student of architecture styles that remembers Queen Victoria was the queen when Victorian buildings were in style.

Can a Knowledge skill be used to gain a tactical advantage? To create/craft something?

Yes to tactical (a character should have a chance to know that he needs a silvered blade if he wants to kill the werewolf, unless they are so rare that nobody knows of that) but no to crafting something. You could use Know (architecture) to design a building and lead the construction but that is about as close as you could get. It is the difference between Know (nature) and Survival. One is theory, the other is practical.

Should there be more Knowledge skills? Less? Or does it depend on the genre/setting?

Depends of genre/setting.

In my current campaign, when you first take a rank in any Knowledge skill you can choose a specialization within that Knowledge, like Know (local [Cormyr]) Know (nature [plants]), or Know (the planes [Xoriat]). You get a +4 bonus on checks in regards to your specialization, or you can get a +6 and take a penalty of -2 on check regarding anything outside the specialization. We're still trialling it.