What do you think of Dragonfire Adepts?

[pawsplay]

Is there any official ruling on this being an illegal option? It seems that the language of the requirement is to prevent creatures with long recharges from taking the feats, not creatures with short recharges.

Although I suppose there is room for concern with a creature blasting Maximize Breath at the start of every fight...

At root is the issue that their breath weapon doesn't recharge at all. That further presents the problem of how a metabreath would make that (nonexistent) recharge longer.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm with the consensus. I like it. I like it better than the warlock, which is mechanically great and conceptually iffy (what about being a dark mage makes you able to fire silvery bolts of damage).

I'm still looking forward to something like Nfft's Psyclock -- a psionic version. Because, IMHO, that is *the* ideal way to do psionics: at will minor abilities and "mind blasts."

 

[Voadam]

At root is the issue that their breath weapon doesn't recharge at all. That further presents the problem of how a metabreath would make that (nonexistent) recharge longer.

By giving it a recharge time?

 

[pawsplay]

By giving it a recharge time?

How? Can I also then take a Feat that gives me extra uses a day, and use those uses while it's recharging? Nothing under metabreath says it gives a recharge time to at will abilities.

 

[Suldulin]

Just view the "at will" as being a shorter way of saying "once per round" essentially. Baring multiple standard actions or shorterning the action required to use the breath weapon, that is what the breath weapon essentially is by the rules. So, using metabreath feats in this case would be both legal and have the drawback of using them.

So yes he could open with an entangling or maximized breath, but he's going to have to do other things while his breath recovers.

 

[frankthedm]

What other options is he requesting for metabreath feats? Ask him if he's okay knowing that, because he is taking them, every True Dragon the party encounters will probably be using them, too. (What's good for the PCs is often good for killin' the PCs... )

Ranks up there with Brutal throw for giants and Practiced spellcaster for anything that can cast.

 

[pawsplay]

Just view the "at will" as being a shorter way of saying "once per round" essentially.

Which is still half a mile from qualifying. Once per round is not the same as once every number of rounds. It is the same as "once every one round" which is a linguistic shuffle. A breath weapon 1/day is also useable once every one round, and it doesn't qualify.

In other words, I could view it that way, but that would be a rules change. Under the RAW, dragonfire adepts do not qualify. They should instead seek abilities that "meta" supernatural or spell-like abilities for that kind of kick.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Which is still half a mile from qualifying. Once per round is not the same as once every number of rounds. It is the same as "once every one round" which is a linguistic shuffle. A breath weapon 1/day is also useable once every one round, and it doesn't qualify.

Three words: "Rule Freakin' Zero."

I don't see any good reason why Dragonfire Adepts *shouldn't* be able to use metabreath feats, which give them the standard 1d4 round delay, + whatever the metabreath feat has, before they can use their breath weapon again.

 

[Nyeshet]

Just view the "at will" as being a shorter way of saying "once per round" essentially. Baring multiple standard actions or shortening the action required to use the breath weapon, that is what the breath weapon essentially is by the rules. So, using metabreath feats in this case would be both legal and have the drawback of using them.

So yes he could open with an entangling or maximized breath, but he's going to have to do other things while his breath recovers.

I second this.

And the dragonfire adept is a nice class - not overpowered, arguably a bit on the weaker side of balanced, cool fluff, and interesting mechanics.

Note that many of its invocations are the same as a warlocks - even if sometimes the names are different. Indeed, I've actually taken some of its invocations and used them for the warlock.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I think it is really cool. In fact I've made it the preferred class for Kobolds.