D&D 4E What Doesn't 4E Do Well?

Why not compare more expensive vehicles? An epic type weapon is an incredibly powerful tool, that - most of the time - isn't really needed unless you're trying to do some outlandish, epic stuff. So why wouldn't the natural point of comparison for a +6 item be something like a rocket boosted, jet powered "car" made because someone is trying to set a new land speed record? Or how about dedicated race cars - where added costs are needed because they engage in potentially deadly competition against other teams also going for high performance?

We could also broaden our category from cars to means of transportation - what's the ratio of a private jet compared to a cart?

Well, or maybe it would make it even more plain to include any sort of vehicle whatsoever.

I kind of look at it this way. A +1 sword is kind of like your average passenger car. Almost anyone could find a use for it and it would be handy to own. Even your average peasant wouldn't mind having such an item and should they find themselves in need of a sword that one would be a good choice. Now, could they use a +6 vorpal sword? Sure, that would be even better, but it wouldn't really do a heck of a lot for our peasant. It sure wouldn't make him a match for anything he couldn't fight with his +1 sword really. Sure he'd be more likely to kill some creature he can fight if he had that +6 but he's still not worth much more than your average Goblin Cutter either way. The +6 sword is kind of like someone owning an F18. Sure you COULD use it to get from here to there, but honestly its probably a lot more trouble than its worth and you sure as heck wouldn't spend 30 million $ on it unless you happen to be a small gulf oil state. Nor are you likely to be able to sell it for anything more than a small fraction of what it's worth.
 

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DracoSuave

First Post
Things I don't think 4e does well.

1. Novice characters. A fourth edition character starts out clearly distinct from the common town guards (not necessarily better as a glance at the monster manual town guard will tell you), but distinct. The mechanics do not help you create a sense that characters started off as ordinary people who took on an extraordinary task and by overcoming challenges ascended to the top of the world. Instead, the mechanics get in the way of that. The PCs were never ordinary.

Agreed, it doesn't handle this well... but then, that's not the tone of the game either. So it's not inherently a bad thing.

2. Skill challenges. By this, I refer to the rules for skill challenges in the DMG--either before or after errata. The mechanic for skill challenges is terrible and more often serves to gloss over story elements than to immerse players in them. I think after two years of play the, "DMs/authors just haven't figured out how to run/write good skill challenges" excuse has worn out. If the rules were any good, people would be using them well by now.

Bullocks.

You present the characters with a problem, and they tell you how they'd like to solve it. That's storytelling. That's how skill challenges work. Failure to do this IS DM fail, the rules are open ended enough.

3. Non-combat encounters. Now, this has already generated some controversy in the thread. Obviously if you're the kind of DM or player who doesn't want rules to get in the way of your fun, then you're going to be fine with 4th edition's ability to do non-combat encounters. For players and DMs like me who like to have an idea of what our characters should be able to accomplish outside of combat, the rules for skill uses tend to be rolled into the rules for skill challenges where the DC for whatever you want to do is 5/10/15 +1/2 level. The end result is that you don't really know what you can do unless you are in a skill challenge (in which case, it's pretty much the same as it was at 1st level). And if you're not in a skill challenge, for a lot of things, you have no idea what the DC is or should be.

Bullocks. If it's easy at level 1, it's DC 5. Moderate, DC 10. Heavy, DC 15.

You ask 'Is this easy, moderate, or hard for an untrained character of this level?' then consult a chart that's also easy.

4. Rituals. Yeah, you can do them. But other than the cure disease/etc line of rituals, why would you? The basic scrying ritual, for instance takes a long time to perform, only gives you 30 seconds viewing time at best, and is so short range that you can probably see the location you're scrying anyway. If you want to outdo Iggwilv and bind Grazz't, rituals would seem like the perfect instrument, but there isn't a ritual for doing that. If you would like to make your castle fly, there's no ritual for that either. The system has just enough rules for curing that you can fix what monsters do to you and enough rules for divination that you can figure out it's never worthwhile. And it has rituals for things like waterbreathing that are needed to facilitate certain types of adventures. But it does not have rituals for anything that would drive the plot itself. Those are for NPCs and don't need rules.

There are a finite number of rituals. There are an infinite number of things for rituals to do.

If you want to bind Grazz't, that's not a ritual, that's an adventure. Rituals are not adventure-replacements.

5. Make combat quick. The proof is on this one. In LFR, it is quite frequent for convention organizers to extend the game slots for paragon tier adventures to six hours because otherwise there isn't enough time to finish the module. It's not role-playing that is taking all that extra time. Nor is it usually the case that they are trying to cram more combats into the modules than they were before. (In fact, LFR modules often have fewer combats than Living Greyhawk or Living Arcanis modules did).

Can't argue with this, but the game is designed around more complex battles.

6. Run mid-sized to large combats. If you don't like the minion rules, you're completely out of luck for running a combat with two enemies per PC. If you wanted to run a combat with three enemies per PC, you're probably out of luck even with minions. The xp per monster system and the relation of attack to defense and hit points in 4th edition means that you're pretty much running combats with 1-8 non-minions, tops and maybe up to 8 minions. But more than that and it stops working.

If your complaint is that taking out the support for massive combats with tons of weaker creatures makes the system lose that support, then I'll reply 'NO :):):):)'.

And if your example is 'For a party of 4, you can handle 16 monsters tops' then you fail at math for saying 'can't handle 3:1'.

Also, taking out the engine in a car means it won't go vroom vroom.

7. Run non-distinct combat encounters.
If you don't get a short rest in between two encounters, even two relatively easy encounters can threaten a TPK. You need that five minute rest and consequently kicking in the door and clearing out a whole dungeon in glorious round by round combat is out of the question. Likewise, "the guards sounded the alarm, and you hear the rush of booted hobgoblin feet that will probably arrive in two minutes" is a signal to retreat rather than to drink a few potions or move to defensive locations.

And what did previous editions do to make this better by omitting short rests?

If your complaint is 'You can't clear out an adventure in a single encounter' I'll not argue your point. I won't call it a bad thing.

8. Run a sandbox campaign.

Bullocks.

Utter and complete bullocks. It's -easier- to react to players' whims when you don't need every rule codified and every monster stated to oblivion.

DM-fail.

9. Beginner characters.
Even the "stand 25 squares back and twin strike with my greatbow" character is far more complex to run than some characters in previous editions were. There are no longer super-complex characters like wizards were in previous editions, but there aren't simple ones like previous edition barbarians or fighters could be either.

4 powers isn't terribly complex.... and the learning curve as that character gains levels is smooth.

The difference is that beginner character eventually creates a gamer who is an expert, and can play more complex characters later.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
Well, or maybe it would make it even more plain to include any sort of vehicle whatsoever.

I kind of look at it this way. A +1 sword is kind of like your average passenger car. Almost anyone could find a use for it and it would be handy to own. Even your average peasant wouldn't mind having such an item and should they find themselves in need of a sword that one would be a good choice. Now, could they use a +6 vorpal sword? Sure, that would be even better, but it wouldn't really do a heck of a lot for our peasant. It sure wouldn't make him a match for anything he couldn't fight with his +1 sword really. Sure he'd be more likely to kill some creature he can fight if he had that +6 but he's still not worth much more than your average Goblin Cutter either way. The +6 sword is kind of like someone owning an F18. Sure you COULD use it to get from here to there, but honestly its probably a lot more trouble than its worth and you sure as heck wouldn't spend 30 million $ on it unless you happen to be a small gulf oil state. Nor are you likely to be able to sell it for anything more than a small fraction of what it's worth.

You two are way overexaggerating.

The +6 sword makes the peasant about twice as capable as a +0 sword. He averages 3x as much damage per round (course, his defenses and hit points do not increase).

The F18 max speed is 1190 mph. The $10,000 car, 90 mph. 13 times as fast.
The F18 weight is 25 tons. The $10,000 car, 1.5 tons. 17 times as massive.

The deadliness of the F18, massive. It could wipe out an entire infantry. Thousands of times more deadly than the car. There are valid reasons it costs 3000 to 6000 times as much as the car.

I think comparing the worst new car to the best new car is a much better comparison than the worst new car to a good jet fighter.

Comparing the worst new car to a good jet fighter is like comparing the non-magic sword to a demi-god. These are magnitudes of increased effectiveness, not just a linear increase like triple damage.

A +6 sword just isn't that much more potent than a +1 sword that it would be worth more than 3000x as much (or 75,000 times as much as a +0 sword).
 

DracoSuave

First Post
You two are way overexaggerating.

The +6 sword makes the peasant about twice as capable as a +0 sword. He averages 3x as much damage per round (course, his defenses and hit points do not increase).

The F18 max speed is 1190 mph. The $10,000 car, 90 mph. 13 times as fast.
The F18 weight is 25 tons. The $10,000 car, 1.5 tons. 17 times as massive.

The deadliness of the F18, massive. It could wipe out an entire infantry. Thousands of times more deadly than the car. There are valid reasons it costs 3000 to 6000 times as much as the car.

I think comparing the worst new car to the best new car is a much better comparison than the worst new car to a good jet fighter.

Comparing the worst new car to a good jet fighter is like comparing the non-magic sword to a demi-god. These are magnitudes of increased effectiveness, not just a linear increase like triple damage.

A +6 sword just isn't that much more potent than a +1 sword that it would be worth more than 3000x as much (or 75,000 times as much as a +0 sword).

Potency, as well as scarcity, are part of the determining factor in price.... as well as some sort of diminishing returns in terms of resources put into it.

A +2 sword is five times as costly as a +1 sword for simple fact that in order to make a +2 sword, you need the same magic stuffs as you do to make five +1 swords.

So, even if you have demand for +2 swords, you only have so much stuff to go around. And if that demand is because of an evil army batting down your door, you're better off spreading the 'wealth' so to speak.

To expand that even further, a +6 sword is 3125 times as expensive as a +1 sword. You have a battalion to arm. You're just better off making 3125 +1 swords if you have enough time on your hands.

Thusly, scarcity kicks in, and you have a situation where +1 swords are common, and +6 swords are hella rare and therefore very expensive.

And, because +6 swords aren't useful for an army, they tend to find themselves in the hands of the people who -can- use them, epic level heroes who are capable of taking on the gods themselves. 3125 +1 swords are NOT helpful in the battle to destroy Orcus. A +6 sword is.
 

Victim

First Post
You two are way overexaggerating.

The +6 sword makes the peasant about twice as capable as a +0 sword. He averages 3x as much damage per round (course, his defenses and hit points do not increase).

The F18 max speed is 1190 mph. The $10,000 car, 90 mph. 13 times as fast.
The F18 weight is 25 tons. The $10,000 car, 1.5 tons. 17 times as massive.

The deadliness of the F18, massive. It could wipe out an entire infantry. Thousands of times more deadly than the car. There are valid reasons it costs 3000 to 6000 times as much as the car.

I think comparing the worst new car to the best new car is a much better comparison than the worst new car to a good jet fighter.

Comparing the worst new car to a good jet fighter is like comparing the non-magic sword to a demi-god. These are magnitudes of increased effectiveness, not just a linear increase like triple damage.

A +6 sword just isn't that much more potent than a +1 sword that it would be worth more than 3000x as much (or 75,000 times as much as a +0 sword).

It also costs millions of dollars to get a fully trained fighter pilot. It's the combination that's powerful - a state of art jet aircraft needs an elite pilot to use it to its full extent. In the hands of unskilled person, it's just an expensive accident waiting to happen. Same thing with race cars: I'd imagine a lot of people would have trouble just driving the car at speed, much less driving safely in a pack of vehicles. And actually driving well enough to compete? Does someone who does message boards and email on a PC really benefit much from a water cooled, overclocked beast with multiple video cards?

Is a plus +6 sword a game winner in the hands of a low level character? Nope. But how often do epic weapons end up in the hands of a low level character? They're tools for demigods and the like - when the fate of a world might be depending on their struggle with some demon lord (or something), every small edge can matter. It can just come rather dear, given diminishing returns and the like. But it's still essentially cheaper than trying to get the advantage some other way - like by training up another epic guy.
 

Somebloke

First Post
Things I don't think 4e does well.

1. Novice characters. A fourth edition character starts out clearly distinct from the common town guards (not necessarily better as a glance at the monster manual town guard will tell you), but distinct. The mechanics do not help you create a sense that characters started off as ordinary people who took on an extraordinary task and by overcoming challenges ascended to the top of the world. Instead, the mechanics get in the way of that. The PCs were never ordinary.

2. Skill challenges. By this, I refer to the rules for skill challenges in the DMG--either before or after errata. The mechanic for skill challenges is terrible and more often serves to gloss over story elements than to immerse players in them. I think after two years of play the, "DMs/authors just haven't figured out how to run/write good skill challenges" excuse has worn out. If the rules were any good, people would be using them well by now.

3. Non-combat encounters. Now, this has already generated some controversy in the thread. Obviously if you're the kind of DM or player who doesn't want rules to get in the way of your fun, then you're going to be fine with 4th edition's ability to do non-combat encounters. For players and DMs like me who like to have an idea of what our characters should be able to accomplish outside of combat, the rules for skill uses tend to be rolled into the rules for skill challenges where the DC for whatever you want to do is 5/10/15 +1/2 level. The end result is that you don't really know what you can do unless you are in a skill challenge (in which case, it's pretty much the same as it was at 1st level). And if you're not in a skill challenge, for a lot of things, you have no idea what the DC is or should be.

4. Rituals. Yeah, you can do them. But other than the cure disease/etc line of rituals, why would you? The basic scrying ritual, for instance takes a long time to perform, only gives you 30 seconds viewing time at best, and is so short range that you can probably see the location you're scrying anyway. If you want to outdo Iggwilv and bind Grazz't, rituals would seem like the perfect instrument, but there isn't a ritual for doing that. If you would like to make your castle fly, there's no ritual for that either. The system has just enough rules for curing that you can fix what monsters do to you and enough rules for divination that you can figure out it's never worthwhile. And it has rituals for things like waterbreathing that are needed to facilitate certain types of adventures. But it does not have rituals for anything that would drive the plot itself. Those are for NPCs and don't need rules.

5. Make combat quick. The proof is on this one. In LFR, it is quite frequent for convention organizers to extend the game slots for paragon tier adventures to six hours because otherwise there isn't enough time to finish the module. It's not role-playing that is taking all that extra time. Nor is it usually the case that they are trying to cram more combats into the modules than they were before. (In fact, LFR modules often have fewer combats than Living Greyhawk or Living Arcanis modules did).

6. Run mid-sized to large combats. If you don't like the minion rules, you're completely out of luck for running a combat with two enemies per PC. If you wanted to run a combat with three enemies per PC, you're probably out of luck even with minions. The xp per monster system and the relation of attack to defense and hit points in 4th edition means that you're pretty much running combats with 1-8 non-minions, tops and maybe up to 8 minions. But more than that and it stops working.

7. Run non-distinct combat encounters.
If you don't get a short rest in between two encounters, even two relatively easy encounters can threaten a TPK. You need that five minute rest and consequently kicking in the door and clearing out a whole dungeon in glorious round by round combat is out of the question. Likewise, "the guards sounded the alarm, and you hear the rush of booted hobgoblin feet that will probably arrive in two minutes" is a signal to retreat rather than to drink a few potions or move to defensive locations.

8. Run a sandbox campaign.
4e works if the DM is driving the campaign. If the players are doing so, it is much harder to make it work. The "whatever the plot requires" attitude towards the abilities of NPCs makes it impossible for PCs to engage in a game of preparation with distant NPCs. You can't keep non-detection up so that the NPCs don't scry you. (First, there isn't a non-detection ritual. Second, there aren't useful scrying rituals which means that if they do try, the DM has a new ritual that you don't know how to use or defend against). Likewise, you can't anticipate that the NPC will attempt to raise the soldiers who died in the last battle as undead and use them against you but will be limited as to how much he can raise because you stole his onyx gems last session. Since there are no rules for creating undead, you don't know what he needs or how many undead he can raise--ordinarily the answer is, whatever the plot demands and whatever makes a useful encounter. While those answers make sense in the context of a story-driven campaign where you have to stop the bad guy from getting the whatever it is he needs, they don't work in a sandbox campaign where you try to understand his capabilities and make plans to neutralize them.

9. Beginner characters.
Even the "stand 25 squares back and twin strike with my greatbow" character is far more complex to run than some characters in previous editions were. There are no longer super-complex characters like wizards were in previous editions, but there aren't simple ones like previous edition barbarians or fighters could be either.
I have to strongly disagree with 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 (especially), 7, 8 and 9.

1) 1st level characters may be distinct from the town guard (although a fighter more or less fulfills the same job) but as you mentioned they are not overwhelmingly more powerful- and we haven't even discussed orcs, who would at equal numbers present a serious (n+3) challenge to 1st level characters. Characters are more developed than their monster-level equivalent and have a few more tricks, but not so much that there is a severe disparity.

2) As a DM I've run a number of skill challenges that worked brilliantly. Skill challenges are an art and a difficult one to master- for a new DM they can end up being clunky and repeditive (my first ones were, certainly) but done right they are a solid mechanic and help to flesh out noncombat encounters. Furthermore, once the DM has the basics down pat they can be easily generated or amended on the fly, creating plenty of room for initiative and creativity.

3) Again, sorry but I have had little problem as a DM with adjudicating on the fly- especially since the handy DC 10/15/20+1/2 level rule means I have a good baseline to go on if someone wants to try to sneak around/talk their way out etc. As I mentioned before, the skill challenge system means that even complex plans can be easily ruled on. This is a huge step from 3rd edition, whereby the DM often had to rely on 1 or 2 skill checks to determine pivotal events (or worse, a saving throw against a magical duex ex machina).

4) Rituals have proven less useful than I would have hoped for- absolutely. Just not as useless as you make out to be. So far I've seen rituals used for all manner of player shenanigans, effectively opening up new pathways or options for them to overcome noncombat challenges.

5) I agree with this. I've reduced hp by a quarter across the board to compensate- this seems to work well.

6) My group of 7 (including two NPCs) finished last session defending the top of an abandoned watchtower against 40 gnolls, including 24 minions. The challenge level is high but not outside of the player's ability to deal with as per DMG guidelines. The monster stats all fall within the DMG stats, too. The sole rule I have broken is making 6 minions = to 1 monster, and this is based on playtesting rather than an attempt to beef up the numbers for number's sake. Other encounters included 80 zombies + 2 wights against the 5 PCs. Both encounters were/are being enjoyed by the party. Prior to 4th edition if you wanted a mass combat you would have to rely on low, low level monsters- monsters that, as the 4th edition rulebook noted, the party would easily just roll over with a handful of area effect spells. 4e represents the first (and in my campaign at least successful) attempt to address this.

My suggestion is to try to use monsters 1-3 levels lower than the party as mooks- you will be able to throw more at them, especially in regards to minions (also- use more minions. The DMG has overestimated their power- something it did wrong).

7) A string of encounters, one after the other, is out of the question, although it really depends on what your DM's view of an encounter is (I've had no problems with reducing it to 30 seconds or lengthening it to several hours to suit the situation or event). Two encounters at level equivalent however is not going to tax the party, however.

8) There is a non-detection ritual if the DM says there is- jot it down on the monster sheet. The undead summoning rules are whatever the Dm says they are- jot them down on the monster sheet. This is not cheating since the monster generation rules are entirely about the DM creating what he needs. If anything, the quick, easy encounter generation rules (I can easily create an 'orc encounter' list from levels n-3 to n+5 and keep it on hand if the players do something unexpected in the orc lands) and the quick, easy writeup of encounters suggested in the DMG means that sandboxing is far, far easier in 4e than in 3e.

9) I will agree that starter characters at high level are slightly easier in 3e. So long as you are willing to accept a handful of builds for a handful of character classes- beyond this you were screwed. Overall, 4e has reduced complexity across the board.
 

segrada

First Post
Some things that I don't think 4E does well (and some these may have been discussed before):

1. Resource Management.
Nearly everything a character can do is limited to a certain number of times/day. Encounter powers, daily powers, healing surges, second winds, action points, utility powers (both daily and encounter), daily magic item powers that prevent me from using OTHER daily magic item powers until I get in a few more fights, etc. Except for moving and at-wills, every single thing my character does in combat involves me checking something off of a list. When I have a limited pool of basically everything, it makes me hesitate to use my more powerful options because of constantly saying, "Is it worth it? What's around the corner?" Sometimes you want to just play a guy swinging a sword.

2. Lack of Advance Preparation.
With the removal of long-acting buff effects and specific anti-creature items, advance warning of situations becomes pointless. Consider a 4E party who is ambushed by a group of vampires, and how the combat would likely play out. Now, consider a 4E party who knew that a group of vampires were terrorizing a town and had been warned as the whereabouts of the vampires' hide-out. Is there any difference to how the combat would play out, other than a surprise round? Replace the vampires with a black dragon, or a group of fire elementals, or a golem and the results are similar, sadly.



This isn't just a 4E thing, but I'm not sure that people responding to complaints with "Well the DM could just make up an item/ritual/houserule to compensate, if you're struggling with this then your DM fails" are making valid arguments. Responding to a weakness of a particular gaming system with "well you could just change it" doesn't make it less of a weakness.
 


Some things that I don't think 4E does well (and some these may have been discussed before):

1. Resource Management.
Nearly everything a character can do is limited to a certain number of times/day. Encounter powers, daily powers, healing surges, second winds, action points, utility powers (both daily and encounter), daily magic item powers that prevent me from using OTHER daily magic item powers until I get in a few more fights, etc. Except for moving and at-wills, every single thing my character does in combat involves me checking something off of a list. When I have a limited pool of basically everything, it makes me hesitate to use my more powerful options because of constantly saying, "Is it worth it? What's around the corner?" Sometimes you want to just play a guy swinging a sword.

Well now, there are a number of different resources in 4e but is it really a problem? You have nice power cards for all sorts of powers. I think resource management is a focus of 4e, yes, but I'm not really sure I see how this is something it "doesn't do well". It has a really well thought out system of resource management. In many ways its actually simpler than than previous-Es with the removal of things like charges (which could get really complex when you get into things like the Helm of Brilliance, or Necklace of Fireballs, or the Staff of the Magi).

2. Lack of Advance Preparation.
With the removal of long-acting buff effects and specific anti-creature items, advance warning of situations becomes pointless. Consider a 4E party who is ambushed by a group of vampires, and how the combat would likely play out. Now, consider a 4E party who knew that a group of vampires were terrorizing a town and had been warned as the whereabouts of the vampires' hide-out. Is there any difference to how the combat would play out, other than a surprise round? Replace the vampires with a black dragon, or a group of fire elementals, or a golem and the results are similar, sadly.

Uh, well, I think you're just discounting a lot of things the PCs can do to prepare. Wizards can select specific daily/utility spells, which can be pretty handy when fighting undead that are immune to such staples as Stinking Cloud. Beyond that there is plenty of scope for a party to buy or construct various items and consumables that will make a HUGE difference. Remember it takes only a few hours for a character to brew potions, make holy water, concoct alchemical items, and enchant both consumable and non-consumable items. Overall I have to disagree with you that 4e lacks ways to prepare for things, ESPECIALLY undead but the same considerations also apply to constructs, demons, etc to a lesser extent.


This isn't just a 4E thing, but I'm not sure that people responding to complaints with "Well the DM could just make up an item/ritual/houserule to compensate, if you're struggling with this then your DM fails" are making valid arguments. Responding to a weakness of a particular gaming system with "well you could just change it" doesn't make it less of a weakness.

I think the problem is that previous-Es (well, 3.x at least) tried to map out every detail of the various options open to players. 4e CONSCIOUSLY avoids doing that to a large extent. I'm not sure I agree that's a weakness since looking at it from the DM's side of the table it creates a lot more leeway to shape the flavor of the game in whatever way you want. Its not exactly rocket science for the DM to come up with something like an item or a ritual that PCs can be handed or that they need to acquire in order to deal with specific threats. Going back to 3.x as the counter-example you had to say "no" in order to avoid the players just using the stock solutions if those were inconvenient in the context of the structure of your adventure. IMHO there is such a thing as TOO MUCH being nailed down by the rules in this area. Even so, as I said above, 4e does give a party quite a few options.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
Some things that I don't think 4E does well (and some these may have been discussed before):

1. Resource Management.
Nearly everything a character can do is limited to a certain number of times/day. Encounter powers, daily powers, healing surges, second winds, action points, utility powers (both daily and encounter), daily magic item powers that prevent me from using OTHER daily magic item powers until I get in a few more fights, etc. Except for moving and at-wills, every single thing my character does in combat involves me checking something off of a list. When I have a limited pool of basically everything, it makes me hesitate to use my more powerful options because of constantly saying, "Is it worth it? What's around the corner?" Sometimes you want to just play a guy swinging a sword.

2. Lack of Advance Preparation.
With the removal of long-acting buff effects and specific anti-creature items, advance warning of situations becomes pointless. Consider a 4E party who is ambushed by a group of vampires, and how the combat would likely play out. Now, consider a 4E party who knew that a group of vampires were terrorizing a town and had been warned as the whereabouts of the vampires' hide-out. Is there any difference to how the combat would play out, other than a surprise round? Replace the vampires with a black dragon, or a group of fire elementals, or a golem and the results are similar, sadly.



This isn't just a 4E thing, but I'm not sure that people responding to complaints with "Well the DM could just make up an item/ritual/houserule to compensate, if you're struggling with this then your DM fails" are making valid arguments. Responding to a weakness of a particular gaming system with "well you could just change it" doesn't make it less of a weakness.

1. If you don't enjoy any level of resource management, I'll agree it isn't something 4e does well. You can't effectively create a 1e/2e style fighter whose only "maneuver" (excluding DM-fiat stunts like disarming) is an auto-attack.

On the other hand, if everything in the game was at-will, I'd also say that the resource management aspect was botched because, IME and IMO, it's adds an interesting element to game play for most people. It necessitates an element of strategy if you have to consider whether you wish to use power x now or save it for a possible future need. The whole point is to make you hesitate and wonder what's around the next corner. Regarding encounter abilities, however, there's really minimal reason to hold back with them since you'll have them back again in 5 minutes anyway. It's certainly not the same as accidentally wasting a daily on a minion, which I could see as more of an issue (I'd just warn the player if they were about to do something like that).

IMO, the varying levels of resource management is something 4e did right, though I can totally understand why a person who dislikes resource management wouldn't like that aspect of it.

2. They actually did include advanced preparation, in the form of consumables. For your vampire example, the PCs can brew (or purchase) a few Gravespawn Potions to help shift the odds in their favor. Rituals are also a possibility for preparation. If you learn that you're dealing with a black dragon (great swimmers) living in a swamp, you can cast water breathing so that you're not at risk of drowning in case the dragon drags you underwater. You could also create Potions of Resistance to protect the party from it's breath weapon.

Advanced preparation has certainly changed from earlier editions, in that there's always an investment required in order to make an encounter easier, but I think it's reasonable that an easy encounter reaps slightly smaller rewards. It's certainly still an aspect of the game, though it might be a lesser aspect than in prior editions.
 

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