What Edition to use? (Forked Thread: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?)

[T. Foster]

What Jhaelen said. However, while the rest of us are declaiming out (likely terrible, but hopefully at least funny) poetry, we've also got the party thief sneaking around behind the giant getting into position for a back stab, just in case...

 

[joethelawyer]

i voted a different system because in my group we would have made the player go old school and recite the poetry then and there. there was no option for that in the poll. its an option that transcends editions for us, we did that in all editions we have played.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

3e.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

For 3rd Edition, it's as simple as opposed Perform (Oratory) rolls! The monster, being a Drama Giant, would have 10 to 15 hit dice since all giants have hit dice in that range. You would also have to include a charisma bonus between 1 and 4. If it were to max out the skill, it could have as high as a +22 to its check! That's an extreme case of course. More likely it would be around a +11. Barring lucky rolls, what PC could match that? A few characters may go "And you all laughed at me for maxing out Perform (poetry)!" but I think they may be the exception. How many characters do you know that have that skill maxed out?

Or it could just be any Bard with Versatile Performer feat and max ranks in any perform skill (and he has to pick perform oratory). Or perhaps he took Bardic Knack and has half his level ranks in it automatically + huge cha. Really, most bards could handle this encounter and have a fair to great chance of succeeding. It's possible for other classes too, but it'd depend on what they spent skills on or spells prepared, so hard to make a general comment.

I think this poll is flawed, though. I presume you want to know which game this encounter would be best run in, as in the most fun. But instead, I suspect people are voting based on which game it would be easiest for the party to overcome the challenge in (4E; everyone's automatically half-decent at poetry), which is an entirely different question. Either that or they're just voting for their favorite edition.

I voted 3E, cause it's the best for this of the few editions I've played (3E, and some 2E and 4E), but I'm doubtless there's a system out there that handles this better, probably something by White Wolf. I just can't name one. (I did play a one-shot of Changeling, actually... it'd be interesting how this would play out in that system...)

 

[Ourph]

If I ever played in a game where a situation like this occurred I would punch the DM in the brain.

Ditto... with the exception that I would aim much lower.

 

[Logan_Bonner]

Set up a skill challenge to determine the win conditions (it's easier to set up a structure and XP reward that way—to lay out the ground rules of the contest in a way that's easy for players to understand). However, players can opt to recite an original poem instead of making a skill check. This way players who don't want to come up with a poem can give a general theme and make a skill check instead, and those who want to be creative can do so.

I'd also judge the poems of a player whose PC is trained in Cha-based skills less harshly, and make the drama giant a dragon.

 

[FireLance]

make the drama giant a dragon.

Sweet little upside-down cake,
Cares and woes, you've got 'em.
Poor little upside-down cake,
Your top is on your bottom.

Alas, little upside-down cake,
Your troubles never stop.
Because, little upside-down cake,
Your bottom's on your top.

 

[TBeholder]

Suppose your adventuring party came into a situation like this...
[...]
Losing would lead to a bad result, like getting kicked out. My question is which edition would you want to do this in?

Quick answer: Use walkthrough, because such a silly situation can appear only in CRPG.
Serious answer: Encounter including poetry contest would not look completely crazy in some settings, e.g. vaguely Japan or Arabian, or places where bard class is used widely. But if you run such a setting, you must know that this challenge happens, and so already have mechanics. Perform(poetry) or "Poetry" proficiency from AD&D 2 The Complete Bard's Handbook... that's moot point: just one skill, not too hard to add or adopt if needed. More important is that either quickest, sneakiest or aesthetically perfect answer can be valued more, sometimes such rhyme would involve allusions - Innuendo, Knowledge(something).
I mean, even though one variant resemble another, ultimately it's setting-depended thing, and even in one setting it's situation-depended. No guarantee of single-check resolution, and rulebooks would not give all possible variants. So -
Final answer: ideal variant is something that combines checks better than 3ed; otherwise indiffirent.

I would make the characters play it out in-character, regardless of the edition.

Well, of course it's best played, not rolled, but just like with diplomacy skills, basic mechanics adds uncertainty and helps to avoid going OOC. Why not tell rhyme and then make check, to determine audience reaction ? Or why not to adjust roll depending on request details, much like in other situations ?

What fun would something called a "poetry competition" be, if it could be resolved by just another throw of the dice?

I agree: by the same token, “oh, your PC searched chap's room as quickly as possible and found this and this” is less satisfying than “<my PC> looks under bed” - “nothing but chamber-pot, it stinks.” - “carefully tilts mirror's top and look what's behind or stuck on backside...”- “there's some parchment, it's folded”. First approach is surefire hazard-killer. But this does not means second should not involve any roll, right ?..

 

[MrMyth]

I think this poll is flawed, though. I presume you want to know which game this encounter would be best run in, as in the most fun. But instead, I suspect people are voting based on which game it would be easiest for the party to overcome the challenge in (4E; everyone's automatically half-decent at poetry), which is an entirely different question. Either that or they're just voting for their favorite edition.

I think that is a rather faulty assumption. I voted 4E since it meant everyone would be able to participate in this challenge, which I find is what makes these things fun. I'd also find it easiest in the skill challenge framework to cater both to those who want to use free-form poetry, and those who want to instead rely on their character skill.

Compare this to 3rd Edition, where I would see such a challenge as either super-easy to overcome (ie, through random chance, you have someone trained in poetry)... or everyone is bad at it, since no one has any ranks in it, which would end up rather frustrating for them.

Now, you may see it differently, and that's fine - that is what the poll is for!

But accusing those who voted for 4E of ignoring the question and just trying to drive up their numbers in the poll... well, that is the sort of attitude that I think really feeds into the edition war. It isn't simple disagreement over which edition might be better to use... but actively suspecting everyone who disagrees with you of ulterior motives.