What ELSE do Fighters do?

[Steverooo]

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Sence Motive, Search, Intimidate and Spot as class skills, I think they make sence in context with the class, but I can live with them otherwise.

Well, you're KINDA in luck then... We know that Intimidate is being added to the Fighter's Class Skills in 3.5e.

 

[Tonguez]

These problems could be easily solved by WOTC in a single book if they actually created some high level feats with matching prereqs. Sword and board and Two Weapon fighting feats already exist, but feats need to be created for single weapon style, two handed style etc. Also, many of the special abilities given to PrCs are bascially feats (from just S&F): Supreme Cleave, Canny Defense, improved coup de grace, blades of death, zen archery, ki whirlwind, ki critical, superior combat reflexes.

Now this I agree with entirely there are far too many PrCs being published. A much better option would be new Feat Chains which allow Fighters to get nasty without the need for 'extra spells'.
Thats why I allow my players to use Psionic Feats (but not Psionic Powers) - they make a better Monk for starters.

And Feat Chains to be used as 'Combat Styles' would be wonderful. I was discussing at one point an idea for 'Weapon Schools' which would allow Fighters to Specialise just as Spellcasters can. These Schools would limit choice of weapons (eg 'Polearms' or 'Axes') but give bonus feats (maybe even a Weapon Domain type system with a new weapon bonus per level say BAb +1 per level -hmm might be a bit too much that...)

 

[Henry]

The fighter fights, and he does it better, longer, and harder.

I agree with Graz'zt: If a class fights better than a fighter, and longer-term, then that class needs to be toned down. To see the fighter gain MORE combat ability is going too far, to me, but the fact that a fighter does not depend on spells is his main strength.

 

[The_Gneech]

What's that fighter doing while the cleric is casting spells, just standing there watching him?

I'd like to mention a little thing called "Attack of Opportunity."

"Vultus, omnia, car--ARGH! Damn, there went that spell."

"Vultus, omnia, car--OWWW! Cripes, there went THAT spell."

"Vultus, omnia, car--AAAaaaauuughghggurgle" (dies)

Any fighter who moves slowly would be well-served by investing in a mighty composite longbow, at least at lower levels. Target's fifty feet away? Run 10' and *plunk!* Run 10' and *plunk!* Run 10' and *plunk!* Fast-draw (you did take that feat, didn't you?) and CHAAAARGE!

-The Gneech

 

[mmadsen]

So, what distinguishes the Fighter?

Right now, it's the ability to use heavy armor, all weapons, and Bonus Feats... Of course, other classes (especially Prestige Classes) ALSO get Bonus Feats!

The Fighter isn't distinguished by Bonus Feats in general; he's distinguished by the particular Bonus Feats on the Fighter list -- which, naturally, all have to do with fighting. A class full of meta-magic Bonus Feats, or social Bonus Feats, or any other non-combat Bonus Feats wouldn't overlap with the Fighter at all.

 

[Voadam]

Well my experience is that a cleric is a better fighter than the Fighter himself. What good for are several feats if you can use them only in very specific situations ? See Whirlwind Attack. Cleave is only good against low HP critters but then a fireball would do better. Power Attack ... nice but most time my fighter can only use it in a charge at around 2. Most heavy monsters have a too high AC to use Power Attack. No gain if you hit once instead of 3 times a round.

Things like Weapon Focus (Attack +1 on one weapon type) along with Weapon Specialization (Damage +2 on one weapon type) are easily topped by the cleric (level6) casting GMW on his weapon (+2 to hit and damage on every weapon he wants).

Now you can say that a fighter (level 15) always dominates the cleric (level 15) as long as there is no magic involved ... but part of the cleric class IS magic. He wouldn't be CR 15 if he couldn't cast spells.
Oh, the AC ..... poor fighter ! No Greater Magic Vestment.
Oh, Stats ... no buff spells ... not even the possibility to raise a stat with a feat. (At epic levels this willl change...)

We did a one on one fight for training, our Tempus Cleric and my Fighter ... same level. He melted my 130 HP away like snow in the sun and I hit him 2 times for 30 damage.... Something must be wrong ... fighting frustrates me.
I wade into melee (after some rounds I can reach a significant foe) and for all damage I inflict I get hit at nearly equal amount.
The cleric cast flamestrikes, bladebarrier, bla bla, and if the melee finally comes to him he won't get hit because of his high AC.

Last session our cleric 15 didn't fear to fight a band of 3 Fire Giants, several ogres, multiple goblins (the cannon fodder stuff), and a troll with more than 220 HP and spellcasting ability ... alone.
He killed them all without getting a scratch ! What good for is a fighter ??????? Never take it

Oh well, I'm lamenting again. Forget it. Most time I have still very much fun in that group. Perhaps the world get's even a bit better with 3.5. Have a nice weekend.
BYE

In some groups the buff spells get cast on the character they will benefit the most, for combat ones this would be the fighter over the cleric. You get more bang for your buff buck if you cast them on someone with more attacks who does more base damage to start.

As for your one on one training, did the enemy cleric start with all his spells cast? It also sounds like you started at significant range, if your fighter has no missile fire then that would be another slant to the cleric from the arena set up.

Also with preparation a cleric can choose all buffs and combat spells, or a mix of divination and utility spells thrown in as well. This can seriously impact his combat ability.

As for power attack against a high AC big critter being useless, if it has DR beyond the fighter's current weapon power attack is a great option.