D&D General What Even Is The Deal With DnD Dragons?

[doctorbadwolf]

They aren’t mythic beings, unless you only use Ancient Dragons (and not even always then), so they don’t fill the same place as the Red and White dragons of Welsh myth, or the great dragons of Sumerian myth. In fact, it seems like you really have to work to make them fit any mythic dragon model.

And the whole Chromatic/Metallic thing...what the hell is this?

First, they’re all both of those words. It’s like Alien vs Predator. They’re both alien predators. Imagine if we referred to the Blood War as Evil vs Fiends. It’s weird.

And the whole idea of them embodying alignments is just...one of the worst example of the grid filling of early dnd monster creation.

It just seems like having so many types of what is really the same creature, just with differing personalities and breath weapons, dilutes the whole concept. Stuff like Faeirie Dragons, Wyverns, Dragon Turtles, etc, at least expands what a dragon can be, rather than just being a palette swap I’m expected to take seriously as an important part of the world.

So, idk, defend dnd dragons if you like them, or join me in commiseration if you find them wanting.

 

[Seramus]

They are their own thing now, and fit into the mythic D&D dragon model. Because D&D has started to become mythic itself.

 

[Zardnaar]

They are their own thing now, and fit into the mythic D&D dragon model. Because D&D has started to become mythic itself.

This. They're D&D dragons now.

 

[Tony Vargas]

They aren’t mythic beings, unless you only use Ancient Dragons (and not even always then), so they don’t fill the same place as the Red and White dragons of Welsh myth, or the great dragons of Sumerian myth. In fact, it seems like you really have to work to make them fit any mythic dragon model.

Getting 'mythic' out of D&D, in general, can be a bit of a stretch. The kewl magical powerz are there (and then some, and then some more), and highly-improbable survival of the hero (plot armor) via hps & saves, but little else.

And the whole Chromatic/Metallic thing...what the hell is this? And the whole idea of them embodying alignments is just...one of the worst example of the grid filling of early dnd monster creation

So, Gygax was an actuary or something like that, he worked in insurance. Sorting things into boxes must've been pretty engrained. Also, y'know, 9-alignment system, classes, outer planes, etc...

But, is grid-filling really all that bad? It can result in a fairly intuitive, not-so-hard-to-use framework.

So, idk, defend dnd dragons if you like them, or join me in commiseration if you find them wanting.

Dragons in myth and legend ranged from that little basilisk thing in the familiar St George & the Dragon stained-glass window, to, like, Tiamat's body is the world. Wyrmling to Huge/Ancient doesn't seem too unreasonable. Maybe they need to go huger and ancienter?

If you take the MM as a naturalists' textbook, and assume every variation on every monster has a sustainable population in the world, it gets crazy fast, though. There'd be thousands of dragons, when, in myth/legend, they're often one-off creatures.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

D&D dragons as stated are now just D&D dragons. They are monsters with powers that must be defeated for sweet loot. I can see how some may not dig the idea but for me the alignment grid is fine even if I've moved to a Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic system. Honestly my players don't think it through that much, they are more concerned with loot possibilities and how many will die getting it.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, D&D dragons are their own thing, no doubt about that. Can’t say I’m a big fan of their grid-filling nature either, but I do actually like the metallic/chromatic divide, particularly in the D&D context. That said, because I like to fiddle with the baseline assumptions, my metallic dragons come in the lead, tin, iron, copper, silver, quicksilver, and gold varieties, and my chromatic dragons come in the ebon, albino, citrine, and ruby varieties. And they’re not associated with particular alignments (as sapient beings, their alignments are not categorical), although the chromatic dragons’ temperaments are melancholic, phlegmatic, choleric, and sanguine respectively due to their imbalanced humors and that does tend to lead them towards certain patterns of behavior, which in turn determine their alignments.

 

[Tony Vargas]

although the chromatic dragons’ temperaments are melancholic, phlegmatic, choleric, and sanguine respectively due to their imbalanced humors

Nice.

 

[Bitbrain]

What is the deal with D&D dragons?

They come in a variety of different colors, each color having a different type of breath weapon associated with it?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, D&D dragons are their own thing, no doubt about that. Can’t say I’m a big fan of their grid-filling nature either, but I do actually like the metallic/chromatic divide, particularly in the D&D context. That said, because I like to fiddle with the baseline assumptions, my metallic dragons come in the lead, tin, iron, copper, silver, quicksilver, and gold varieties, and my chromatic dragons come in the ebon, albino, citrine, and ruby varieties. And they’re not associated with particular alignments (as sapient beings, their alignments are not categorical), although the chromatic dragons’ temperaments are melancholic, phlegmatic, choleric, and sanguine respectively due to their imbalanced humors and that does tend to lead them towards certain patterns of behavior, which in turn determine their alignments.

See that’s some medieval hermetic esoterica, and I’m here for it.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I can't answer why the dragons have alignment tied to color, but they don't have to be mythic to be related and/or inspired by folklore. Many of the dragons of folklore were essentially just giant lizards. As far a breath weapon, that's rooted in folklore too. Catalan dragons could breather fire and poison. And it's a common trope for dragons to "raid countrysides" and "sleep on piles of treasure" before D&D came along.