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<blockquote data-quote="Haldrik" data-source="post: 8060573" data-attributes="member: 6694221">Rogues are appropriate for a nonmagic Minstrel or Troubadour. The original 1e Bard is a Fighter/Thief. So, this version of a Minstrel is a heavy-hitting damage dealer, with stealth capability.There are charming and persuasive Rogue traditions. This Charisma can function as an entertainer.The 5e Bard is a fullcaster. To ask for a nonmagic Wizard class, is like asking for a nonmagic Bard class. Or a nonmagic Cleric. Or a nonmagic Warlock. Or a nonmagic Sorcerer. The Bard is a completely magic archetype that returns to a mythologically accurate Bard according to Welsh and other British ethnicities, with inspiration from Bards like Merlin and Taliesin. The 5e Bard is ethnically sensitive. It is a reallife sacred concept.By contrast a Minstrel or a Troubadour is a nonmagic concept, from Medieval cultures across Europe, known for entertaining music, political propaganda, and news dissemination. They tend to have a &quot;roguish&quot; life, in the sense of intermingling aristocracy and commoners.It is possible to make the Minstrel a &quot;prestige class&quot;, by designing it as an archetype that any class can take. So a Fighter or a Rogue, or even a Sorcerer or Warlock, could be a Minstrel. Alternatively, this &quot;prestige class&quot; could be a miniclass from levels 1 to 4 and-or 5 to 8, that any class can multi into. Note, low level features can automatically improve while leveling if they depend on character level. So gaining an ability at level 3 can still be effective at level 20.Depending on how powerful the Minstrel features are, it could even be a Background that offers a meaningful asset in the form of benefits while playing music. Or it could be a feat, comparing to the recent UA Chef feat.The most important thing is to decide on the features that a nonmagic Minstrel should do. Then the most useful design space to implement it should be relatively obvious.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Haldrik, post: 8060573, member: 6694221"] Rogues are appropriate for a nonmagic Minstrel or Troubadour. The original 1e Bard is a Fighter/Thief. So, this version of a Minstrel is a heavy-hitting damage dealer, with stealth capability. There are charming and persuasive Rogue traditions. This Charisma can function as an entertainer. The 5e Bard is a fullcaster. To ask for a nonmagic Wizard class, is like asking for a nonmagic Bard class. Or a nonmagic Cleric. Or a nonmagic Warlock. Or a nonmagic Sorcerer. The Bard is a completely magic archetype that returns to a mythologically accurate Bard according to Welsh and other British ethnicities, with inspiration from Bards like Merlin and Taliesin. The 5e Bard is ethnically sensitive. It is a reallife sacred concept. By contrast a Minstrel or a Troubadour is a nonmagic concept, from Medieval cultures across Europe, known for entertaining music, political propaganda, and news dissemination. They tend to have a "roguish" life, in the sense of intermingling aristocracy and commoners. It is possible to make the Minstrel a "prestige class", by designing it as an archetype that any class can take. So a Fighter or a Rogue, or even a Sorcerer or Warlock, could be a Minstrel. Alternatively, this "prestige class" could be a miniclass from levels 1 to 4 and-or 5 to 8, that any class can multi into. Note, low level features can automatically improve while leveling if they depend on character level. So gaining an ability at level 3 can still be effective at level 20. Depending on how powerful the Minstrel features are, it could even be a Background that offers a meaningful asset in the form of benefits while playing music. Or it could be a feat, comparing to the recent UA Chef feat. The most important thing is to decide on the features that a nonmagic Minstrel should do. Then the most useful design space to implement it should be relatively obvious. [/QUOTE]

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