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Level Up (A5E) [+] What features should a "Advanced 5E" have?


Well, that was fun
Staff member
(If you're not interested in the concept of an Advanced 5E, this thread isn't for you. Move along. Nothing to see here!)

I used "Advanced" just because AD&D did. That doesn't mean better, but it sounds better than "Crunchy 5E". The working title I have in mind is the '6th World System'.

If you ARE interested in the idea of an Advanced 5E - 5E with a bit more crunch - what features would you want to see in it?

Asking for a friend who is me who might make it.
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Fix the six ability score system, so each ability is crystal clear, mutually exclusive, and balanced with the other abilities. Wis is the most incoherent. Dex the most overpowered.

Probably reorganize into 4 abilities. Whatever the number, focus on usefulness during gameplay.

Something like:

• Tough
• Athletic
• Perceptive
• Social


Possibly a Idiot.
First and foremost: A formatting and language cleanup.

The current format where an unarmed strike is a "melee weapon attack" that doesn't actually use a "melee weapon" isn't doing anyone any favors when trying to learn or run the game.

Secondly: All Sublasses at level 1. Waiting till level three for subclasses was an enticing idea (mostly to prevent MC cheese) but by now we have seen the limitations of that particular system. Having some entry level yet defining features at level one, with the real meat-and-potatoes powers around level four, would accomplish the same effect, but also allow people to start playing the character they want to play immediately. Even more importantly it prevents that weirdness where you play as a generic whatever for a while only to suddenly and dramatically alter the way your character plays.


  • Combat Maneuvers, allowing for customization of martials on the same order as casters
  • Expanded and detailed uses for skills
  • Variant skill proficiency system, so it isn't all or nothing
  • Expanded feat system, so feats are a baseline option
  • More complex monsters

Are you taking applications to work on this? I've been working on something similar.


Well, that was fun
Staff member
Things I'd like to see off the top of my head:
  • More customization and choice as characters advance through levels
  • Stuff to spend money on
  • A bit more nuance to advantage, but not too much (it's a great mechanic, and I much prefer it to a plethora of micro bonuses)
  • An easy super-simple "deadliness" switch which makes it really simple to play a cinematic or a gritty game; very simple switch
  • Martial maneuvers
  • I think I'd do something with species, but I'm not sure what yet

Racial traits to be replaced with an optional list of racial feats, as in Pathfinder 2. I don't want gnomes only to be rogues, bards or illusionist spellcasters.

Two pillars of leveling up. One would be the classis (more hit points and bonus for attacks and save) and the other would be like unlocking slots of talent trees.

The return of monster/templates/racial classes, and the racial parangon classes.

A optional module about a different list of abilities scores, for example adding acuity (astuteness + perception), spirit (courage + karma/fate/luck/divine grace) and agility (fast reaction and coordination, des would be about pre-learn actions and precision and crafting, playing music, dance, maneuvers of martial arts).

Martial maneuvers. In the past I insisted a lot of times about samurai, shinobi and sohei as martial adept classes. WotC could hire Dreamscarred Press staff.

A system for sanity/madness as the one from Unknown Armies, but I suggest the pillars: violence, helpleness, reality, regret and loliness.

Allegiance and aligment together. Spells and other powers with key aligment can hurt enemies with same aligment but different allegiance (religion, race, family, brotherhood, tribe, country) and opposite aligment+allegiance (for example a chaotic sheriff with allegiance law who breaks rules to defend the order, or a zealot/revolutionary with good allegiance but bad aligment because he forgot the value of the mercy).


1) A skill proficiency system attached to level progression. By that I mean simply a means to gain proficiency with new skills and/or tools as one levels up (let the class dictate starting skill/tool prof pools, and those acquired via subclass remain the same...merely a means to learn more, and let them be player choice, not necessarily confined to class...but I'd be fine with restricting them to the class pool as well). I'm content with how skills otherwise function in application (though adding more skills to the game would be nice too).

2) A re-vamped Ranger class. The Revised Ranger would be a good chassis to build on, but would very much like to see a base class option to choose between spellcasting vs an option with a more martial leaning with options to select from (something akin to the battle master, but leaning toward terrain/battlefield manipulation, self augmentation that uses terrain or surroundings as opposed to inherent "more damage"....something that hints at how a guerilla warrior would fight, something like a sneak attack, but instead of damage apply conditions to targets...like hamstringing an opponent so slower movement, prevented from taking reactions, etc).

3) Psionics that isn't just spellcasting called Psionics (as Snarf said). Not necessarily a new magic subsystem per se, but something (see #4).

4) Completely optional variant class abilities (not so much as WotC has done, which are often the same thing with different triggering conditions), but honest to goodness different options that trade out one thing for something else (this could also be where psionics fit to avoid a dedicated psionic class...but psionic alternatives to base class abilities...so you can play a psionics-user, but no need to build a dedicated class...fits with the general design WotC was taking with psionics as well). Also seems like an interesting place to explore shared class features as an alternative to multiclassing (like a Fighter giving up Action Surge to gain Sneak Attack, etc).

Hawk Diesel

I'd like to see something that encourages more tactical decisions and teamwork.

For example, being able to use a reaction to drag an ally out of battle, or a reaction for a sorcerer to expend a spell slot to enhance a fighter's attack. I imagine this would require expansion of the reaction system, since it is the only current way for a player to act on someone else's turn. But I think it would go a long way to have players care about what the other players are doing and creative ways to provide assistance.


  1. Customization, such as alternate class abilities, including ways to replace spellcasting for paladins, rangers and bards.
  2. Meaningful choices for weapons and armors.
  3. More combat actions: I have no problem with the battlemaster being the king of maneuvers, but it would be cool to have something like: Parry: You can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC against a single attack.
  4. Rules for social interractions.
  5. Alternate rules, for instance, armor as DR.

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