Level Up (A5E) A5E First Impressions

[Retreater]

I normally write Post-Mortems at the end of a campaign, but I thought in this case it might be valuable to write about how the campaign and experience with the system began.

We had a Session 0 on Sunday, 3/2, and our first session on Sunday, 3/9, so our experience hasn't been very deep at this time.

Introducing the Players

The players are...

• My wife. She came into the hobby with 5E. She prefers action, enjoys D&D 4E and Pathfinder 2, and thinks regular 5E is "boring, bags of hit points." She doesn't like "weak" characters found in OSR systems. (Player A)
• My neighbor. He came into the hobby with 1E but had many years off and returned with 5E. He is a casual-type player, there for fun. He gets frustrated with complex rules. (Player B)
• My neighbor's coworker. She came into the hobby with 2E and ran family games of D&D through 4E. She broke away from D&D around that point and started playing Call of Cthulhu and other games. She is very story-oriented. (Player C)
• The coworker's daughter. She played in the coworker's family games, some 5E, but really likes Call of Cthulhu. She just started college and is studying anthropology. She seems more story-oriented than action-oriented. (Player D)

Choosing the System

We have flipped from several systems in recent years. Our most successful, long-term games were in 5E, though we had a 9 month campaign in 4E (that I didn't enjoy, partially because of the group's dislike of detailed combat).

I wanted the next system we picked to be something familiar with most of the players while providing me with good tools for encounter building and treasure rewards.

Pathfinder 2 was discussed (and yes, I've run several campaigns of PF2). I thought it would be too complex for Player B, and I anticipated that Player C would despise the tight rules for roleplaying. 5E was mentioned as a compromise for everyone, but I wanted a version of 5E that offered more GM help than 2014 did. Of the 5E variants (Tales of the Valiant, 2024, and A5E), I figured we should give A5E a try because A) I already owned the books; B) the online tools could be used by the players without a paid subscription; C) it was compatible with other resources I wanted to use; D) had those GM tools that I wanted out of 2014 D&D.

What the Players Picked

We're playing in Eberron, which is my first exposure to this campaign setting. I'm really digging it so far.

Player A: Goblin Rogue
Player B: Dragonborn Herald (Paladin)
Player C: Changeling Savant (from Zeitgeist)
Player D: Human Wizard

Player A enjoyed the familiarity of 5E, but found that her character (even at level 1) has more options than she had in the 2014 version - and loved adding the expertise die when she was flanking. Players C & D were pleased about the extra steps of character creation and options that tied into their backstories. Player B is having fun and not too confused.

How I'm Using It

In the encounter math, Tier 0 characters (levels 1 and 2) can't handle much: I think it recommends a fight against two CR 1/4 goblins as all they can handle in a day. That's one swing from the herald and a poke from the rogue, and that's the end of the encounter. So I am porting in the Minion rules from MCDM's Flee Mortals to have swarms of stirges and murders of zombies. Everyone gets the opportunity to contribute to the fights without the danger of getting dropped in one hit. (I did use a Cult Fanatic from Monstrous Menagerie as a villain that I planned to have escape to start the adventure off with a bang.)

We haven't interacted with Fatigue, Strife, or Supply yet. That will likely happen in overland travel or in dungeons - there are plenty of havens and taverns in Sharn.

What's Causing Confusion/Slow Down

• Skills not being connected to attributes. They'll have to unlearn 5E with this, and some of them are already "fishing" for always using their best attributes. (Her: "Can I use Intelligence with my Athletics roll to understand the way engineers would create the landing below me so I can land more safely?" Me: "The bridge is collapsing right now. Do you think you have time to theorize about Engineering?")
• What applies for Destiny. (Her: "My coming of age destiny gives me Inspiration when I have a new experience. I've never been to a museum before. Can I get Inspiration?" Me: "Is your character really interested in learning about art or history where this would be a big moment in her life?")
• What counts for expertise. (Holding up fingers. "I have expertise in this skill, he's assisting, I'm flanking. That's like an extra d8, right? Or is it a d6?)
• Critical success/fumbles with skill checks. (Me: "Cool, you got a Natural 20 on Stealth. Let's look through the book to the section on Critical Skill checks. Alright, there it is. Roll a d6. Okay, you got 'no armor penalties for Stealth for the next 10 minutes. Oh, you don't have an armor penalty anyway because you're a Rogue? Ok, I'll just say that you get to move twice as quickly with this Stealth roll.)
• Confusion over Origins/Heritage/Culture/Background/Destiny. [Player B was about to ignore this and make his character in the 2014 style until I pointed out the cool, new abilities. He needed to take the book home over the week between Sessions 0 and 1 to figure it out.] It's not a game you can start quickly.

Their Appraisal
Player A: "I feel like a badass. There's so much more I can do. I was flipping over enemies and stabbing them. I killed 3 zombies in one round!"
Player B: "This book looks awesome. I'm going to look at buying a copy."
Player C: "That was the perfect amount of rules. We had time for story, fights, and everything."
Player D: "This fixes D&D. Everything I wanted to houserule has already been done here. I love it."

So, in short, good job EN Publishing and those who worked on A5E. We had a great session with a group of players who rarely agree on anything. I'm excited to keep running it.

Anybody got questions?

 

[Chaltab]

Glad your table is having fun with this. I'd recommend not using Critical Success/Fumble tables with skill rolls. That's one of the most baffling inclusions in A5E.

I take it you've only got one session in the can so far, so I'm interested in seeing how it progresses. Is Player C using the 5E Changeling race or the A5E Doppleganger heritage?

 

[Piperken]

Choosing the System

...but I wanted a version of 5E that offered more GM help than 2014 did. Of the 5E variants (Tales of the Valiant, 2024, and A5E), I figured we should give A5E a try because A) I already owned the books; B) the online tools could be used by the players without a paid subscription; C) it was compatible with other resources I wanted to use; D) had those GM tools that I wanted out of 2014 D&D...

I recall now you had a number of threads where you debriefed what challenges you had with this table afterwards. I think trying to work with something you already have on hand (A5E) for now is prudent.

...Introducing the Players

The players are...

• My wife. She came into the hobby with 5E. She prefers action, enjoys D&D 4E and Pathfinder 2, and thinks regular 5E is "boring, bags of hit points." She doesn't like "weak" characters found in OSR systems. (Player A)
• My neighbor. He came into the hobby with 1E but had many years off and returned with 5E. He is a casual-type player, there for fun. He gets frustrated with complex rules. (Player B)
• My neighbor's coworker. She came into the hobby with 2E and ran family games of D&D through 4E. She broke away from D&D around that point and started playing Call of Cthulhu and other games. She is very story-oriented. (Player C)
• The coworker's daughter. She played in the coworker's family games, some 5E, but really likes Call of Cthulhu. She just started college and is studying anthropology. She seems more story-oriented than action-oriented. (Player D)...

...What the Players Picked

We're playing in Eberron, which is my first exposure to this campaign setting. I'm really digging it so far.

Player A: Goblin Rogue
Player B: Dragonborn Herald (Paladin)
Player C: Changeling Savant (from Zeitgeist)
Player D: Human Wizard

Player A enjoyed the familiarity of 5E, but found that her character (even at level 1) has more options than she had in the 2014 version - and loved adding the expertise die when she was flanking. Players C & D were pleased about the extra steps of character creation and options that tied into their backstories. Player B is having fun and not too confused...

...Their Appraisal
Player A: "I feel like a badass. There's so much more I can do. I was flipping over enemies and stabbing them. I killed 3 zombies in one round!"
Player B: "This book looks awesome. I'm going to look at buying a copy."
Player C: "That was the perfect amount of rules. We had time for story, fights, and everything."
Player D: "This fixes D&D. Everything I wanted to houserule has already been done here. I love it."

We haven't interacted with Fatigue, Strife, or Supply yet. That will likely happen in overland travel or in dungeons - there are plenty of havens and taverns in Sharn...

I think they picked good classes based on how you described your table!

As a courtesy, the Savant class as I understand was a ported class; before that player gets too deep into it, you may want to look ahead to see if there are any questions you need clarified. (It's fun!)

What's Causing Confusion/Slow Down

• Skills not being connected to attributes. They'll have to unlearn 5E with this, and some of them are already "fishing" for always using their best attributes. (Her: "Can I use Intelligence with my Athletics roll to understand the way engineers would create the landing below me so I can land more safely?" Me: "The bridge is collapsing right now. Do you think you have time to theorize about Engineering?")

There will be hits and misses with this. Freeing skills from attributes will allow for more creativity to spontaneously happen; chase rules are one example.

• What applies for Destiny. (Her: "My coming of age destiny gives me Inspiration when I have a new experience. I've never been to a museum before. Can I get Inspiration?" Me: "Is your character really interested in learning about art or history where this would be a big moment in her life?")

Destinies are a bit like Dark Secret in Vaesen; I'd employ them like you did just here; can they genuinely come up with a sound, fictive reason why the experience of being in this particular museum might become a source of Inspiration. This gives them an opportunity to devise something meaningful.

Some destinies as constructed are easier to trigger than others, in fairness.

• Confusion over Origins/Heritage/Culture/Background/Destiny. [Player B was about to ignore this and make his character in the 2014 style until I pointed out the cool, new abilities. He needed to take the book home over the week between Sessions 0 and 1 to figure it out.] It's not a game you can start quickly.

Yes, that's true.

 

[Smackpixi]

In the encounter math, Tier 0 characters (levels 1 and 2) can't handle much: I think it recommends a fight against two CR 1/4 goblins as all they can handle in a day. That's one swing from the herald and a poke from the rogue, and that's the end of the encounter. So I am porting in the Minion rules from MCDM's Flee Mortals to have swarms of stirges and murders of zombies.

The table in A5e MM is good for CR encounter building. I mean, it’s essentially the same as 5e. Some of the narrative is off, like the quick guide sidebar saying, “If the total CR equals or exceeds the total party level, the combat may be impossible to win!” Which I think is where your comment comes from. The table calls that a medium encounter, which is far more accurate. Except for the underrated Goblins.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

The table in A5e MM is good for CR encounter building. I mean, it’s essentially the same as 5e. Some of the narrative is off, like the quick guide sidebar saying, “If the total CR equals or exceeds the total party level, the combat may be impossible to win!” Which I think is where your comment comes from. The table calls that a medium encounter, which is far more accurate. Except for the underrated Goblins.

what are you looking at? i don't see a table that says a medium encounter is equal to the total party level anywhere in my copy of the A5e MM.

edit: or do you mean it calls the goblin encounter a medium encounter? because the example itself does the same (and for a party of 3 level 1 adventurers too, not 4).

 

[Smackpixi]

what are you looking at? i don't see a table that says a medium encounter is equal to the total party level anywhere in my copy of the A5e MM.

Page 507 in my digital version. Part of appendix D, right after the text section “Example Combat Challenges” and before “Using Elite Monsters”. I recently redownloaded it, guess I don’t know if it was there in the original KS print version.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Page 507 in my digital version. Part of appendix D, right after the text section “Example Combat Challenges” and before “Using Elite Monsters”. I recently redownloaded it, guess I don’t know if it was there in the original KS print version.

...yeah, that table doesn't say that anywhere. it consistently labels medium challenges as being (as close to) 1/3 the total party level (as possible).

you MIGHT be mixing up total party level (which is the sum of the party's total levels) with AVERAGE party level (which is the average level of all the members of the party), in which case yeah, a medium encounter for a party of 3 would, in fact, be the average party level.

 

[Retreater]

. Is Player C using the 5E Changeling race or the A5E Doppleganger heritage?

I think the 5E one from the Eberron book. We had a lot of back and forth between A5E and Eberron, so it's a little jumbled in my head.
I am planning to use @Steampunkette's Psionic Power on my end at some point. (When I got first got it, I didn't know if I would ever start a new 5E campaign.)