Level Up (A5E) What would you do to simplify A5E and/or speed up combat?

[kasin]

I am also generally of the mind that if I wanted it to be simpler, I wouldn't play A5e in the first place. I specifically picked it because I donn't like how simple o5e is. However, I do think it's possible to speed it up. VTTs definitely help a LOT. We've been using Foundry for years now and the one time we played in person, every round took 2-3x longer. Not because it's any harder to know what your character can do (though having every feature, maneuver, etc fully detailed in one convenient place on the VTT is handy), but because rolling real dice and adding them up and then doing math to figure out how much HP you have left after that and so on really adds up. That's all instant on a VTT and it saves way more time than you might realize.

Static expertise is also a good solution, though I think that only really matters playing in person. Since math is instant in a VTT, it really makes no difference. But that's essentially what Pathfinder 2 does. Each level of "expertise" in a skill gives you an additional +2 (IIRC), which is roughly equivalent to taking average on an expertise die (if you also take into account that the numbers go much higher in PF2e generally).

Part of the issue is fantasy grounds doesn't seem to track expertise directly, so it requires a few extra clicks. I'd say it is more the complexity of having lots of small "abilities" that don't add any actions in combat but still clutter the character sheet.

 

[Tessarael]

Yes. If skill specialties applied a static modifier rather than expertise, it would be two clicks less to roll, but the only easy way to remind oneself about them is to list the skill twice: the base skill (the name of which cannot be edited in Fantasy Grounds), and the skill with specialties. So part of the complication is limitations as to what is permitted in the virtual table top software, and the other part is that skill specialties are fine-grained. Conceptually, I like the idea of skill specialties, and it doesn't slow me down that much as a player in practice, but the additional clutter and rolling overhead may not be worth it. A streamlined system where the DM can just auto-roll say Stealth for all party members has significant advantages.

 

[dave2008]

I haven't played A5e (I do have the books); however, what I am hearing from you is that your quest is less about making it simple and more about making it faster to play. I am guessing this is really about combat speed. If that is the case, I suggest a table rule we started using in 4e and now use in 5e as well:

A player gets 30 seconds per turn, that is it. You need to resolve your character's turn in 30 seconds or you are penalized.* All the PCs actions, rolls, damage, etc. in 30 seconds. Only reactions are an exception.

Pros:

1. Speeds up combat. A combat encounter can wrap up in 10-15min.
2. Increases excitement. By putting a time on every round it increases the tension and makes combat, in our experience, much more exciting and engaging.
3. No more people looking their phones. Because everything moves much faster everyone has to stay engaged.
4. Player growth. IME, the players started poorly tactically and with coordination. They would also get penalized often, but the players got better and better and eventually the timer became irrelevant because it became natural to move that fast.

Cons:

1. Buy-in: Your whole group has to be on board to make this work.
2. Learning curve. It can be initially clunky and possible slow things down (depending on the penalty). However, see #4 under Pros. above.
3. VTT: I have no idea if this works with a VTT, we only play in person.
4. I don't really have a #4, once the system is learned it works like a dream IME.

*Penalties can vary depending on what you agree with your table. We started with loss of turn and then move to your turn is out the end of the round, any d20 tests made this round are made w/ disadvantage (targets get advantage on saves), and enemies get advantage on you the next round.

 

[dave2008]

OH, I just thought of another house rule that comes from PF2: only fighters get OA. Reactions can slow the game down, don't give them out so often or easily.

 

[Micah Sweet]

OH, I just thought of another house rule that comes from PF2: only fighters get OA. Reactions can slow the game down, don't give them out so often or easily.

Those are both good ideas. Buffs up fighter as well.

 

[Tessarael]

In practice in our A5E combats, I don't see opportunity attacks happening that often. Nobody has a build designed to maximize those. They happen if an opponent or a PC moves out of melee range without using the Disengage action, but that just isn't that often for us.

 

[Chaltab]

Not to mention some Combat Traditions are heavy on reaction maneuvers and if anything could use more ways of getting extra reactions.

 

[Tessarael]

This is true. And there are ways of getting extra reactions in A5E.

 

[Steampunkette]

1) Players roll everything.
Transferring NPC Saving Throws and stuff into passive values and having players roll spellcasting checks against them makes things much faster. It turns everything into an attack roll and homogenizing that makes the game much quicker in play because everyone just rolls their 'attack' against the NPC's defenses. Same principle behind Passive Skills. Similarly, "Rolling Defense" keeps things as d20+Mods, making it faster and easier to play.

2) Roll it all at once.
Bless, Bardic Inspiration, Expertise. Put it all in your hand alongside the d20 and the damage dice. Fling it all in one shot. If it's a miss, ignore the damage. If it's a hit, there's no "Roll Damage" call. Anything that grants extra rolls (Like Great Weapon Fighting) is included. Requires LOTS of dice in different colors, though.

3) Nix Death Saves
Hit points for NPCs are meat. Hit points for players are luck. When you're down to 0hp you stop taking damage and start taking wounds. Any hit applies 1 wound. Crits apply 2. Healing removes 1 wound and restores HP as normal. Hit 3 wounds and you die. Wounds carry between combats. You can fight while at 0hp. This gets rid of players dealing with a different state and a different value, also makes combat more deadly and keeps players in the action, rather than being stuck on the sidelines.

4) Sandwich Turns
Players roll initiative to see what order they go in, NPCs get assigned a turn between players. Makes combat flow faster when it's player-npc-player-npc-player-npc rather than 2 players, 5 npcs, 1 player, 2 npcs, 1 player, 1 npc, repeat. Everyone knows their turn is coming up right after the bad guy acts, combat is spaced out 'evenly' so you don't wind up with players as distracted as they might otherwise be.

 

[lichmaster]

4) Sandwich Turns
Players roll initiative to see what order they go in, NPCs get assigned a turn between players. Makes combat flow faster when it's player-npc-player-npc-player-npc rather than 2 players, 5 npcs, 1 player, 2 npcs, 1 player, 1 npc, repeat. Everyone knows their turn is coming up right after the bad guy acts, combat is spaced out 'evenly' so you don't wind up with players as distracted as they might otherwise be.

This is something I wanted to suggest too, not just to speed up or simplify combat, but to really improve it: you wont have anymore the situation where good initiative rolls on one side and bad ones on the other can dictate an entire round worth of actions on a single side, potentially making an easy encounter very dangerous or a difficult one trivial (surprise rounds would still be a thing though).
It also keeps the pace of the combat constant instead of "lumpy", and time between turns for players will actually speed up as enemies (or characters!) drop, turning each combat into a crescendo.

The version I'm experimenting with is slightly different, as I treat initiative as group checks on both sides. The side who rolls higher starts first, and characters and monsters alternate sandwich style as above, but for added dynamics I let players and monster choose the order in which they want to act, at every round. This keeps players more engaged and allows them to strategize, but at the same time adds an element of unpredictability because they won't know if the big enemy will act last next round or not.