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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Haldrik" data-source="post: 8060755" data-attributes="member: 6694221">Maybe being more specific can open up solutions.These are the parts of the abilities that are the most disruptive:I want an athletic gymnastic character that only needs to invest in one ability, to develop the character concept. Besides it is nonsensical to separate things like climb and balance, or jump and land. But for character building, the ability of Dexterity to replace Strength for combat mechanics, makes Strength itself redundant. So the need to invest in both Strength and Dexterity for the prominent archetype of someone that is agile, is excessively painful.Maybe delete the Acrobatic skill. Make Strength responsible for every kind of Athletic check, including balance, falling, and tumbling. And make every athletic-theme feature and feat key off of Strength. Completely drop every use of Dexterity for physical stunts.Dexterity is so overpowered that giving Acrobatics to Strength means nothing to the power of Dexterity. Possibly give athletic dodging and the AC bonus to Strength as well!I want Charisma to read the crowds and to read people, because reallife charismatic people do this.(Charisma is a MENTAL ability. It isnt the sexy physically-fit beauty appearance ability. ARTISTIC appeal is part of Charisma. But it isnt the porn score! Some porn performers are taken more SERIOUSLY than others, and these ones with gravitas and presence have the higher Charisma, even if they are all equally sexually appealing.)Empathy and the Insight skill belong to Charisma, as do telepathic-theme mind-influencing features generally.Because Clerics are mostly about spiritual communities, and often about personal relationships with spiritual forces, the Cleric class belongs moreso with Charisma. Even things like Turn Undead work more like intimidation.Wisdom is a frankenstein of unrelated mechanics. Sensory Perception or mindful Willpower.A perceptive person is "smart". The Perception skill belongs moreso with Intelligence. Challenges to ones Perception, such as illusion, forgery, invisibility, and so on, belong moreso to Intelligence. Much of perception is also investigation. Perception is so powerful in game play, it can even be its own ability score, rather than a skill. If Intelligence gets both Perception-Investigation and Lore, then Intelligence becomes a very valuable ability score for any class to invest in. Especially Fighters who need to be battle ready would find Intelligence desirable, and that would make other "smart" character concepts worth investing in when building a character.That leaves Wisdom with the Will save. That was its original 1e mechanic, at least narratively, with its example that only wise people can quit smoking. But an entire ability score to quit smoking? People will still want to invest in Wisdom as the mental defense against Charm and Fear. However, 4e moved the Will save to Charisma, and this makes more sense for 5e too.Alternatively, Wisdom might mean Sensory Perception only and nothing else. This would make hawks "wise" because they see well, and no other reason. Perception is so powerful in gameplay it can stand alone as its own ability. Intelligence would still suck with lore only, and the Investigation skill would remain confusing. But at least there would be more coherence when "Wisdom" is absolutely about colors, scents, tastes, sounds, and nothing else. And overall, the mental scores would be a bit more comparable to each other.Wisdom:• Cleric → Charisma• Will → Charisma• Empathy → Charisma• Perception → IntelligenceWisdom is the least justifiable ability score.I could probably live with six abilities if:• Strength handles every physical challenge, especially balance and falling. (Strength can aim swords agily! Thus land competently, climb delicately.)• Wisdom gets a meaningful fix.</blockquote>

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