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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
[+] What features should a "Advanced 5E" have?
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<blockquote data-quote="Stravask" data-source="post: 8065612" data-attributes="member: 7025839"><p>Some suggestions and requests:</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">One of the biggest things I think needs looked at is the massive problem 5e has with Feats. Some feats are absurdly powerful, while others are borderline useless in 90% of games without a cooperative DM that allows creative use.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">For example, stuff like Sentinel gets taken like, a <em>loooooot</em></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Stuff like Keen Mind however gets left out in the cold unless you creatively spin them. I took Keen Mind for my Wizard and was able to justify to my DM that it meant my character should be able to keep a "mental record" of his spellbook for 30 days in case he lost it, but doing things like that with the more "useless" feats is up to whether your DM can recognize something is a justifiably creative use of the feat even if it isn't overtly stated by the description.</li> </ol></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Same topic of feats but on the subject of Multiclassing, one of the best parts of Pathfinder IMO is the ability to "organically" shift into Multiclassing. 5Es leveling system and multiclassing isn't bad, but compared to Pathfinder it's a lot more... awkward... when handling Multiclassing. A system that allows for a more granular shift to a combination of classes would "feel" a lot better for the aspiring multi-classer.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Bounded Accuracy makes sense, but I think there's some areas where people don't need to fear floating modifiers so much. Personally I go with the Taking20 approach to Flanking instead of combat advantage while flanking for example. I think there's some systems like that could use a look.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I think all the "Half-Spellcaster" classes could use a look as well. I don't like the idea of Rangers no longer having spells to be honest because then they sound just a bit too much like Rogues to me, but the reason I think the idea of Rangers no longer having spells is appealing to some is because as a whole the "Half-spellcaster" classes were implemented in such a way that many of them feel like a weaker version of a martial class added to a weaker version of a spellcaster class. There's definitely better ways to go about a few of these.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Granted, if Multi-classing underwent a satisfying overhaul, "Half-Spellcaster" classes wouldn't need to exist at all, so this entire point is contingent on how well an alteration to Multiclassing is handled.</li> </ol></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I don't think additional races/classes are necessary, as 5E is already a bit bloated. That's my personal view on it, but I think "tuning up" existing content is more beneficial than adding new content in this case. Make the current stuff less "simplified" and people might discover they didn't want "new" content, they were just bored of some of the overly-simple content.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Like Feats, I think a balancing and clarity pass on Spells would be beneficial. I find myself tweaking a lot of spells because they're either strong enough to drown out the desire to try anything else that does something similar (Fireball), or they're so weak that they're "noob traps" and are almost never worth using (True Strike).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If possible, an examination in the the CR system to make it more reliable would be nice.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If possible, making every class get something to be excited about every level would also be nice.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Going back to Feats (again), Racial Feats being tweaked and included as starting Feats by default (though the latter could just be homebrew) would be nice.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I'd like to see a <em>biiit </em>more nuance to some of the exceedingly straightforward classes like the Rogue that is built into the system mechanically, rather than having to be something a player/DM comes up with through roleplaying. For Martial classes it'd be nice to have a mechanically balanced "maneuvers" system for all of them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Truly a "reach for the stars" kind of goal, but if the power gradient of Player Characters was slightly more under control at later levels that'd be swell. Many campaigns stop/die after 14 because PCs just end up so ridiculous that the game becomes progressively harder for DMs to enjoy. If there's a way to smooth out that curve a little bit so that playing until max level was something that happened more often that'd be neat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">There's any number of ways to go about this, many of which are solved with simple homebrew changes, but 5e makes avoiding/recovering from death absurdly easy. It'd be nice to see some take on how to mitigate this a bit in an "Advanced" 5e, though admittedly it's easy to handle it with a couple house rules at the moment.</li> </ol></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stravask, post: 8065612, member: 7025839"] Some suggestions and requests: [LIST=1] [*]One of the biggest things I think needs looked at is the massive problem 5e has with Feats. Some feats are absurdly powerful, while others are borderline useless in 90% of games without a cooperative DM that allows creative use. [LIST=1] [*]For example, stuff like Sentinel gets taken like, a [I]loooooot[/I] [*]Stuff like Keen Mind however gets left out in the cold unless you creatively spin them. I took Keen Mind for my Wizard and was able to justify to my DM that it meant my character should be able to keep a "mental record" of his spellbook for 30 days in case he lost it, but doing things like that with the more "useless" feats is up to whether your DM can recognize something is a justifiably creative use of the feat even if it isn't overtly stated by the description. [/LIST] [*]Same topic of feats but on the subject of Multiclassing, one of the best parts of Pathfinder IMO is the ability to "organically" shift into Multiclassing. 5Es leveling system and multiclassing isn't bad, but compared to Pathfinder it's a lot more... awkward... when handling Multiclassing. A system that allows for a more granular shift to a combination of classes would "feel" a lot better for the aspiring multi-classer. [*]Bounded Accuracy makes sense, but I think there's some areas where people don't need to fear floating modifiers so much. Personally I go with the Taking20 approach to Flanking instead of combat advantage while flanking for example. I think there's some systems like that could use a look. [*]I think all the "Half-Spellcaster" classes could use a look as well. I don't like the idea of Rangers no longer having spells to be honest because then they sound just a bit too much like Rogues to me, but the reason I think the idea of Rangers no longer having spells is appealing to some is because as a whole the "Half-spellcaster" classes were implemented in such a way that many of them feel like a weaker version of a martial class added to a weaker version of a spellcaster class. There's definitely better ways to go about a few of these. [LIST=1] [*]Granted, if Multi-classing underwent a satisfying overhaul, "Half-Spellcaster" classes wouldn't need to exist at all, so this entire point is contingent on how well an alteration to Multiclassing is handled. [/LIST] [*]I don't think additional races/classes are necessary, as 5E is already a bit bloated. That's my personal view on it, but I think "tuning up" existing content is more beneficial than adding new content in this case. Make the current stuff less "simplified" and people might discover they didn't want "new" content, they were just bored of some of the overly-simple content. [*]Like Feats, I think a balancing and clarity pass on Spells would be beneficial. I find myself tweaking a lot of spells because they're either strong enough to drown out the desire to try anything else that does something similar (Fireball), or they're so weak that they're "noob traps" and are almost never worth using (True Strike). [*]If possible, an examination in the the CR system to make it more reliable would be nice. [*]If possible, making every class get something to be excited about every level would also be nice. [*]Going back to Feats (again), Racial Feats being tweaked and included as starting Feats by default (though the latter could just be homebrew) would be nice. [*]I'd like to see a [I]biiit [/I]more nuance to some of the exceedingly straightforward classes like the Rogue that is built into the system mechanically, rather than having to be something a player/DM comes up with through roleplaying. For Martial classes it'd be nice to have a mechanically balanced "maneuvers" system for all of them. [*]Truly a "reach for the stars" kind of goal, but if the power gradient of Player Characters was slightly more under control at later levels that'd be swell. Many campaigns stop/die after 14 because PCs just end up so ridiculous that the game becomes progressively harder for DMs to enjoy. If there's a way to smooth out that curve a little bit so that playing until max level was something that happened more often that'd be neat. [*]There's any number of ways to go about this, many of which are solved with simple homebrew changes, but 5e makes avoiding/recovering from death absurdly easy. It'd be nice to see some take on how to mitigate this a bit in an "Advanced" 5e, though admittedly it's easy to handle it with a couple house rules at the moment. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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[+] What features should a "Advanced 5E" have?
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