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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7933337" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm mostly fine with that distinction.It turns out that the least disruptive at will form of magic is one that replicates a basic attack (preferably requiring a focus of some sort that is effectively a weapon). And I'm not really bothered by the 'pew pew'.Where at-will magic becomes a problem is when it can repeatedly at no cost do something that &quot;muggles&quot; can't do repeatedly at no cost. In most games &quot;muggles&quot; can go stabby stabby all day long, so the fact that you can let lose with a roman candle or a cloud of sparks isn't a big deal. But if you can, for example, create water or light or any other valuable resource at will, that's a big deal and it changes what sort of challenges are meaningful.How much this is a problem was really brought home when we switched from my 3.25e D&amp;D homebrew system, to Pathfinder to give me a break from GMing, and the novice GM running Pathfinder is continually cursing both how the cantrips work in practice, and how inelegantly the writers for the system deal with the existence of limitless magic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7933337, member: 4937"] I'm mostly fine with that distinction. It turns out that the least disruptive at will form of magic is one that replicates a basic attack (preferably requiring a focus of some sort that is effectively a weapon). And I'm not really bothered by the 'pew pew'. Where at-will magic becomes a problem is when it can repeatedly at no cost do something that "muggles" can't do repeatedly at no cost. In most games "muggles" can go stabby stabby all day long, so the fact that you can let lose with a roman candle or a cloud of sparks isn't a big deal. But if you can, for example, create water or light or any other valuable resource at will, that's a big deal and it changes what sort of challenges are meaningful. How much this is a problem was really brought home when we switched from my 3.25e D&D homebrew system, to Pathfinder to give me a break from GMing, and the novice GM running Pathfinder is continually cursing both how the cantrips work in practice, and how inelegantly the writers for the system deal with the existence of limitless magic. [/QUOTE]

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