What good are insta-kill spells and monsters ?

[Kestrel]

I have to agree with a lot of the posters on here. I don't have a problem with insta-kill spells or effects, if used responsibily by the DM. Most of them are higher-level and that's what comes with higher level play. The players should know and expect the opposition to use their abilities to the fullest extent.

To take out the insta-kills really makes a lot of creatures pointless. What is the point of a medusa without their petrifying gaze? Ooh...a snake headed chick, how scary. What is the point of a powerful necromancer without his Finger of Death? Watch out guys, he's going to Ray of Enfeeble and Chill touch us to death.

As a player, I wouldn't play in a game where I know the GM pulls the punches to keep us alive. I've done it before and left everytime. If I want a story where the heroes always win, I'll just watch a buddycop movie. It cheapens the victories and game when I know I can't die.

As a GM, I would be doing a disservice to my players if I held back with the opposition. They are intelligent and know the rules as well as I do. They all have an idea what the npcs can do. Their characters do as well, being powerful in their own abilities gives insight to their foes.

Now, my love of challenging games does not mean that I enjoy a DM that gets his jollies killing players. A DM shouldn't be throwing deadly monsters at the players just to kill them and enjoy his power from it.

 

[hong]

As a player, I wouldn't play in a game where I know the GM pulls the punches to keep us alive. I've done it before and left everytime. If I want a story where the heroes always win, I'll just watch a buddycop movie. It cheapens the victories and game when I know I can't die.

Would you like to play in my game? I've just had a stretch of six deaths in six sessions. All via hit point damage or Con drain. No instakill effects.

Now, my love of challenging games does not mean that I enjoy a DM that gets his jollies killing players. A DM shouldn't be throwing deadly monsters at the players just to kill them and enjoy his power from it.

Chicken.

 

[Kestrel]

Would you like to play in my game? I've just had a stretch of six deaths in six sessions. All via hit point damage or Con drain. No instakill effects.

Hehe.....the yahoo group for my game is called Deathwalkers, the name of the adventuring company I ran through RttToEE. They had all died at least once, some twice

Sure, Im game, although I doubt I could afford the flight to Australia. So what's the story on this rapid succession of deaths?

Chicken

Bok Bok PIKAK!

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Now, my love of challenging games does not mean that I enjoy a DM that gets his jollies killing players. A DM shouldn't be throwing deadly monsters at the players just to kill them and enjoy his power from it.


Chicken.

I'd hate to be one of your players!

Those things are bloody lethal.

Turn your back on them and it's 'save vs peck or die'?

Our group only fights blind kobolds. One at a time. We get 10 times as much XP. And kewl magyk soords.

 

[MerakSpielman]

You know, as a player I want to always be dreadfully aware of my characters mortality, but yet I want them to manage to always find a way to squeek by and not actually die... Likewise, as a DM, I don't try to actively put the PCs in save-or-die situations, but I want the players to be fully aware that a slip up could have nasty consiquenses... and therefore they work hard at preventing slip-ups.

 

[takyris]

Kestrel,

At least one thing mentioned earlier was the idea that you can keep monster powers but alter them to become non-instakill. Somebody liked the "slow progression" concept I gave, so let me give it a version of that.

Basilisk: Minor Petrification Power. As soon as you look at one, you are affected by the gaze attack. For the next ten rounds, you must make a Fort save (normal basilisk DC) or take 1d4 permanent Dex damage as your body slowly turns to stone (saving negates the effect for that round). A Stone to Flesh, Break Enchantment, or Polymorph spell stops and reverses this effect. You are limited to one move or attack action per round as the effect takes place. Once you reach 0 Dex, you have completely turned to stone, and a Polymorph spell will no longer save you.

If you survive the ten rounds, you suffer no further effects unless you meet the basilisk's gaze again -- you may have partially crystallized limbs, a rocky texture, or other similar features.

Beholder: Major Disintegration Power. As soon as a ray hits you, you are affected by the disintegration attack. For the next 4 rounds, you take 1d12 Strength and Con damage as your body slowly crumbles to dust. A successful Fort save each round (normal DC) halves the damage taken that round. A Heal, Ironskin, Gaseous Form, or Telekinesis spell stops and reverses this effect. You are limited to one move or attack action per round as the effect takes place. Once you reach 0 Dex, you have been completely disintegrated. Your remains crumble to dust, and only a Wish, Miracle, or Resurrection spell can return you to your normal form.

In one sense, these are less deadly, since they give people chances to save themselves. In another sense, they're MORE deadly, since they will consume party resources (can't kill the monster, I have to save my friend first) and require more saving throws -- even if the fighter only needs a 4 to save, he has to save A LOT, which means he's gonna miss a few here and there.

And imagine the look on the players' faces as they desperately try to kill the basilisk while their muscles stiffen and their limbs grow slack, hoping that at least one of them will survive to bring back help...

 

[diaglo]

So what's the story on this rapid succession of deaths?

they were all chickens too. so he grabbed them by the neck and Pop! off with their heads.

now they just run around headless for a few minutes.

 

[the Jester]

Would you like to play in my game? I've just had a stretch of six deaths in six sessions. All via hit point damage or Con drain. No instakill effects.

Hong, whenever I finally make it to Austria, can I play in your game? Even if it's just a one-shot?

Maybe I'll get a chance to practice my German too.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Hong, whenever I finally make it to Austria, can I play in your game? Even if it's just a one-shot?

Maybe I'll get a chance to practice my German too.

Nazi Dingos are underpowered.

(psst... 'e be in Aus-Tra-Lia).

 

[MerakSpielman]

Yeah, well, it's easy to get those Eastern European countries mixed-up.