What happened to Behemoth3 publishing?

Thanael

Explorer
Whatever happened to Behemoth3 ? They published 2 Masters and Minions Horde Books: A Swarm of Stirges and Maze of the Minotaur. Did part 3 Rage of the Remorhaz get published at all ? What happened to the company?

I see Tavis Allison (aka Tav_Behemoth) has written two 4E books for Goodman Games, but I can't find anything about why Behemoth3 disappeared on their old site with the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.
 
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Tav_Behemoth

First Post
Hi Thanael,

A manuscript for Rage of the Remorhaz was written by Nat Sims, but didn't make it to layout or publication. We've talked about making it available at the Grand OGC Wiki, which has content from the first two books. I'll tell the story of Behemoth3 & its fate when I get a little more time.

Yours,
 

Thanael

Explorer
Making the manuscript available on the Grand OGC wiki would be great of course. But why not have it layed out and made available as a pdf ?

I remember that i read some previews of it an i really liked what i saw. I also remember that i sold quite a few Remorhaz minis on ebay for promo to one of you guys iirc.
 

Thanael

Explorer
So... what's up with Behemoth3 and the Remorhaz book?

--Thanael

PS: I would have sent you a pm, but the system says your inbox is full, so I can't.
 

Wycen

Explorer
I met Tavis way back at the second Gencon SoCal. He was the only person from ENworld I could identify (didn't have computer access nor was I attending the con 24/7, though I was there for most of it).

I think the 3rd year (my second SoCal event) I stopped by his booth and he was gone doing something called "fight monsters and win money", where you could literally win real cash.

I also picked up a preview sheet of the remorhaz, which had a prestige class.

This is all from memory back around 2004/2005 so details may be off.

Sometime after that I was visiting his site, or maybe it was gamingreport and read something about Gamer Tours.

I'm not trying to speak for Tavis of course, just remembering. If I could find the preview sheet of the remorhaz, I'd be willing to send you a copy. I know I have it, the question is where did it end up? I think it was a prestige class for riding a remorhaz. I think.
 



Thanael

Explorer
Behemoth3

Archive.org still has a snapshot of their website. The download links are dead though, butI probably have those previews on my HD anyways.
 
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Tav_Behemoth

First Post
Thanks for the link, Thanael!

Here's an update on B3 and its members:

Our business plan for the Horde Books was based on estimates of d20 sales that were probably accurate as of 2002, but in 2004 we were victims of the d20 glut. We made a number of other mistakes as well, to be sure. One piece of advice I wish we'd taken was to have a year's worth of products ready to print by the time you announce the first of them. I don't think that would have made a difference to the bottom line, but at least we'd have a finished Remorhaz book! As it was, in the rush to get ready for a Gen Con release, Nat got pulled away from writing his book to do layout on the other two, and by the time we got back to editing it we were already starting to be disappointed by our sales (less than 600 copies each, IIRC). We did accept a request to do a fourth Horde Book on the bulette from a freelancer, Chris Field; that MS is even less edited & developed than the Remorhaz one, and we eventually decided that it wasn't going to be worth publishing it and paid Chris a kill fee (making him the only author to actually make money from a Horde Book)!

In retrospect we shouldn't have let that slow us down. It was fun to do, we'd heard going into it that the way to make a small fortune in RPGs was to start with a large one, and Sang knew the economics of small-press publishing first hand from experience with our mutual friend Gil Roth's Voyant Publishing. But making a living, or trying to, writing RPG books is a dream job, which for me at least entails a certain amount of unreal thinking & the possibility of being disappointed when you wake up!

Certainly, even if turning a profit wasn't a realistic goal, we did achieve all the things we could have hoped - the major exception being that Nat didn't get to see his remorhaz book on a game store shelf, which I still feel bad about given how much work he put into the company. But when Gary Gygax died, one of the things that helped me deal with my sadness & regret was knowing that we had sent him a copy of the Stirge and Minotaur books as a way of saying thanks for his inspiration throughout our lives. Through the experience of running Behemoth3, we had a great time, made friends, and influenced people - I persist in believing that the reason there's a stirge swarm in the 4E MM is because we pressed a copy of _A Swarm of Stirges_ on Jonathan Tweet (a culture hero of mine) when he visited the Forge booth at Gen Con in '04.

The next thing Behemoth3 did was to explore the idea of RPGs as a service, since there didn't seem to be a way for us to sell them as goods. We launched Otherworld Excursions, a brand dedicated to packaging RPG experiences, at Indy in '05. I'd learned as much as I could about other examples where that had been successful. At Gen Con So Cal in '05, we shared a booth with Becky Thomas, whose Roleplay Workshop supports her as a full-time professional GM. The Kill Monsters, Win Money tournament was a similar experiment in making GMing profitable, based on the D&D for Cash event at Indy. Perhaps because So Cal was a smaller event, we wound up losing a little money on the deal (not enough promotion = too few players = too little money in the pot to cover the prize). The thing that was successful both commercially and artistically (not to use too high-faluting a word, but I do think it's interesting to consider RPGs as a performance art & examine why or why not it couldn't support paid performances) was the Excursion that Ken Hite did. This was a walking tour of Chicago's occult architecture, followed by dinner and a Call of Cthulu game, both of which took place in one of the sites on the tour (the Hotel Intercontinental, a former Masonic temple). The folks who did this said that the real-world experience of seeing these buildings made it easier & more compelling to then imagine their characters confronting eldrich horrors in that setting. I still get emails from people interested in doing this Excursion; the problem that kept me from organizing it more than a couple of times was the difficulty of getting a critical mass of people together at one time.

Eventually we let the website fall dormant (esp. after bots festooned the forums with spam) and dissolved the company - one of the mistakes we made was to incorporate as an S-corp, so filing corporate taxes each year was a major source of ongoing damage. I wish I'd been more decisive about pulling the plug, among other reasons because it would have let us make an announcement to that effect instead of trailing off in a lingering death, but in retrospect I had a hard time admitting that the dream wasn't going to pan out & was ashamed not to have succeeded in everything I'd wanted to do.

Here's what's up these days with each of the Behemoths:

I've been doing a bunch of writing for 4E; although much of it hasn't been announced yet, I've co-authored six books for Goodman Games and one for a first-party publisher, and we'll be playtesting another Goodman project (my first adventure; everything else has been mechanics) at Gen Con this year. I'm still interested in professional GMing, but for now I'm happy to observe the scene & developments like Capt. Commando's Guild of Blades attempt & Yax's Hawaiian vacation. Being a stay-at-home dad takes up less of my time these days now that my son's in first grade, so I'm looking to expand the medical & scientific grant writing I've been doing as a freelancer into a full time job in the NY/NJ/CT area.

Brian Stith moved from North Carolina to Stratford, CT last year, which is awesome because we get to see one another more often (including getting together with some of our other high school friends to game once a month, although I've missed the last few). He's got a much better job than he did back in '04, but it requires him to travel just about non-stop so I don't know that we'll see anything more from him in a while, although he did show me some notes on a necromancer class for 3E that I thought were pretty awesome.

Nat Sims became a father last year, and if that wasn't keeping him busy enough, he's also the head of Night and Day Studios. They recently started doing iPhone games, so that's one step closer to reclaiming Nat from museum design! I'll call his attention to this thread; I know he'll be pleased that so many people are interested in seeing his Remorhaz Horde. Since he did all B3's layout and graphic design, his time is a major bottleneck in turning that MS into a polished product but I agree that sure would be cool!

Sang Lee is, I hope, still drawing and illustrating. Although we recently re-connected via Facebook I'm not as in touch with him as I'd like, but I do have his original stirge sketch framed & hung proudly over my desk.
 
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Thanael

Explorer
Thanks for that story Tavis. And good to hear that you're still in the RPG business.

I was very impressed with the research on the MnM books and iirc the reception was very good. An ENNIE honorable mention even. Too bad the sales were that low. What about the pdf sales? Are you guys still making a little money with those at least?

If you could make the Remorhaz book available in the Grand OGL Wiki that would be great indeed. Or perhaps even as a pdf for Free RPG day? I'm sure somebody from the community can come up with the extra editing and layout skills needed to complete it.
 

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