What happened to Negative Energy Ray (and the like) from T&B?

[FoxWander]

So why weren't the Negative Energy spells (Ray, Burst and Wave) from Tome & Blood updated to 3.5?

Since they don't seem overpowered I can only guess that it's for meta-game reasons, i.e. arcane "negative" energy spells beg the question/creation of arcane "positive" energy spells and thus arcane "healing" which violates a sacred cow of the game. (Wizards shall not be allowed to heal, druids shall be thematically linked to scimitars, clerics shall... actually I don't know what clerics are inexplicably limited to anymore) Can anyone think/know of a better reason these spells weren't updated?

I suppose it could be argued that the spells were "overpowered" in that it the 'damage the living but heal undead' action of the spell led to too much undead-miniony goodness. With Negative Energy Burst it's way too easy for the BBEG (to include PC BBEGs) to heal all his undead minions while at the same time hurting all their living foes. But that's more of an argument against RBDM (and RBPC) tricks than a problem with the spell. PCs do the same trick (and nothing stops the bad guys from doing it as well) all the time with mass cure spells... well, except mass cures don't hurt your enemy at the same time. So at most, this would push towards upping the spell level of the Negative Energy spells. (Only the 1st level ray spell seems to need a 1 level increase, IMHO)

I don't know... I can't think of a compelling argument against allowing 3.5 versions of the spells aside from the 'slippery slope to violating sacred-cowism' one. Anyone else have any ideas? Anyone "in the know" or WOTC staff that knows the actual reason they weren't updated?

 

[FoxWander]

Wow, 83 views and not one comment?! I'd hoped somebody might have some insights or opinions.

How about this- would you allow the spells, as they are now, in your game? Would you allow them with some kind of adjustment/update?

 

[jdrakeh]

Ray seems to have been supplanted by Enervation, while Negative Energy Bursthttp://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#negativeEnergyBurst remains unchanged.

 

[WarlockLord]

I'd allow them. I like necromantic attacks.

 

[FoxWander]

Maybe I should summarize the spells.

Negative Energy Ray
1st level spell, close range, Will save for half
Ranged touch attack that deals 1d6 negative energy damage to living creatures it hits. +1d6 for every two levels higher, to a max of 5d6 at 9th level. Undead are healed instead.

Negative Energy Burst
3rd level, close range, 20 ft burst, Will save-half
Deals 1d8 damage to living creatures +1 pt per caster level (max 1d8+10). Undead are healed by the same amount.

Negative Energy Wave
4th level, 50 foot burst centered on you, will save-negates
This one simulates an evil clerics abilities. It affects 1d6 HD of undead per level (max 15d6), closest are affected first. You chose to rebuke (affected undead are treated as stunned for 10 rounds) or bolster (affected undead gain turn resistance of 1d4+your charisma mod for 10 rounds)


So there's nothing similar to either enervation or the epic feat, negative energy burst.

 

[the Jester]

I don't have a problem with them, except that the ray should prolly be 2nd level imho (as you said above).

 

[jdrakeh]

Nevermind. My ignorance of D&D 3.0 is great. I didn't really have any interest in returning to D&D until 3.5 was released.

 

[Vascant]

I don't have a problem with them, except that the ray should prolly be 2nd level imho (as you said above).

While granted it is merely an opinion but it is equal to MM with a few trade offs, ray has a 1 point higher yield while MM has a point higher min yield on damage. MM requires no attack rolls but the Ray does.. Also the ray allows for a save for half.

 

[Felix]

except that the ray should prolly be 2nd level

Negative Energy Ray

Attack: Ranged touch
Range: Close
Damage: 1d6 + 1d6/2 levels, max 5d6
Save: Will half
Special: heal undead​

Shocking Grasp

Attack: Touch attack
Range: Touch
Damage: 1d6 + 1d6/level, max 5d6
Save: None
Special: +3 to attack an enemy with metal armor.

If the touch attack misses, the spell remains for another attack.​

I'd say these are pretty much in line for a 1st level spell. What would bump it up to 2nd?

 

[Twowolves]

My guess is because spells that require an attack roll to do damage don't usually allow a further save to reduce said damage. Negative Energy Ray breaks that rule of thumb.