What happened to the story?

[MonsterMash]

Open the DMG 3.5e, and turn to page 44: One hundred adventure ideas.
Open Races of Stone and turn to page 191: One hundred adventure ideas.
Open Races of the Wild and turn to page 191: One hundred adventure ideas.
Open Frostburn and turn to page 198: Twenty frostfell adventure ideas.

Are they what you're looking for?

Cheers!

Merric, I'd still say that novice GM need some assistance in how to realise ideas, but those are a reasonable thing for a GM who'se had a bit of experience and is looking to come up with something else. (I still prefer the Judges Guild product though!)

 

[mhacdebhandia]

So, what elements of plot do you enjoy?

I'm going to address this, since my position on the role of story hooks and whatnot in published material has already been covered by others.

What I like in a roleplaying game is stories about ideas. I like stories about ideas - even if it's as straightforward and simple as one being's idea of how something should be - and I like stories about people whose ideas are challenged. I tend to lean away from the traditional idea-stories of fantasy - the paladin whose faith is shaken, the elf and dwarf who learn that their races' dislike of each other is unimportant - not because they're bad, but because they're not as fresh as other ideas.

In Hong's Britannia campaign, for example, I have just finished playing - since he refused resurrection last session - a character who has been struggling with the fact that the person (his wife) who gave him his purpose in life, who instilled him with a set of firm values and led him in developing the abilities that would allow him to defend those values against the forces opposing them, had betrayed those values and their shared mission, and that she was tricked into doing so.

Given that he had believed her to be a wiser, stronger, and more righteous person than himself, he could not come to terms with the implications of her fall for his own ability to remain righteous in the face of evil. Therefore, he became ever more self-righteous and distant from the situation - he took part in the quest to redeem her, but refused to acknowledge that it was for any reason other than because it was the right thing to do (while telling himself, at least, that it proved he was a better person than her after all).

The essential core of the story is that my PC believed in an idea not because he was truly committed to its principles, but because he admired (and loved) someone who he believed exemplified those ideals, and wanted to emulate and help her. It's the tragedy not of someone whose faith is questioned but of misplaced commitment - when she fell and he could no longer believe in her, he had to adopt a false and self-righteous commitment to the principles he'd only ever believed in for her sake, hewing to their letter while betraying their spirit as surely as she had.

I like stories about ideas, and people's relationship with them.

 

[JoeGKushner]

How do you hook PCs who have everything?

Heck, that's the easiest one.

Take it away!

 

[Henry]

The kinds of things I need as a storytelling resource are things that help me with travel times, travel distances, weather and ecology. Other GMs might want help with other aspects of world-building where they lack knowledge in the real world....

I would have purchased Frostburn if it actually told me how to model all the arctic environmental conditions I would like to. Or imagine if they had listed all the various potential mounts that could go through cold climes, how much they could carry, what their movement rate would be like over various kinds of snow or how cold an environment they could survive in -- wouldn't you love to know which kinds of cold places you can put yaks in and which you can put dogs in?

OFF-TOPIC THOUGHT FOR FUSANGITE:
When you said this, it immediately brought to mind JG Browning's Expeditious Retreat Press Products, particularly Magical Medieval Society:Western Europe, and Magical Society: Ecology and Culture? If you are, I'll say no more. If not, it's worth checking out.

Expeditous Retreat Press web site

 

[fusangite]

OFF-TOPIC THOUGHT FOR FUSANGITE:
When you said this, it immediately brought to mind JG Browning's Expeditious Retreat Press Products, particularly Magical Medieval Society:Western Europe, and Magical Society: Ecology and Culture? If you are, I'll say no more. If not, it's worth checking out.

Expeditous Retreat Press web site

I am aware. My support of Joe and Suzi's approach is one of the reasons I have a small credit in MMS:WE. But I think they deserve to be promoted whenever possible so I'm glad you reminded people about their work.

Actually, in thinking about how their books are great tools for aiding in story production that most other supplements are not, it makes me realize part of what we're missing. Most products only give mechanics for two things: character development and confrontation. While these are important things in story, they are not the totality of story.

Expeditious Retreat Press covers all kinds of things that require mechanics but are not confrontation, per se.

 

[Gothic_Demon]

Merric, I'd still say that novice GM need some assistance in how to realise ideas

Here in the UK children are taught how to realise a story from idea to completion. The same probably holds true in the US. It's assumed that people who play DnD have finished (or are finishing) school, and have done well enough to have completed these areas.

I've played with 12 DMs (and DM myself), and never have I seen a DM ask for story-building advice beyond that taught to 13 year olds at high school. Naturally creative DMs tend to do better at this, but everyone has the basics taught to them.

This might be why there is very little on the market to fill this (supposed) gap.

 

[Mystery Man]

We get threads on power creep, new rules for 4th edition, arguments on if a Hulking Hurler can do a gazillion damage and if by cxhance that might be broke. But we don't get a lot of threads on the story. And we don't get books on the story either. Most books have the latest character options in them, and it seems the writers ideas are incorperated into the latest feat or organized prestige class.

So, what elements of plot do you enjoy? What RPG sources do you find have the best ideas in them for using in your game? And am I wrong that there is not enough story talk or is it just too difficult to include on boards?

I tried making a thread on this, it faded quick. I should have put something about 4th edition in there, it may have lasted longer.

Ah well.

Then again, perhaps it was so damn brilliant it needed no reply...then again...

 

[Psion]

The story is not dead. It's just not in general. Well, outside of maybe Psion's River of Worlds thread...

And that was really born in the Plots & Places forum.

(And to think at one time, I was against the creation of a Plots & Places forum, thinking it would detract from the attention to the listed threads. I guess it's a seasonal thing. Right now, there is a lot of mini-edition wars going on, and those seem to be hogging the attention.)

 

[Psion]

Okay, everyone, sit up and pay attention:

There are good story resources out there. But as many of you probably know, it's as much art as science, and just giving you the right tools isn't going to instantly make you a master GM.

That said, here we go. If you want help assembling interesting scenarios (I say scenarios, because plot to me implies scripting), check out this:

http://www.io.com/~sjohn/plots.htm

Now before you go there thinking this is a cure to all your ills, let me point out a point the author makes:

don't fuss too much over plot, as many GMs do. All of the plots here can provide a tried-and-true, simple structure, and structure is all you need a plot for in a roleplaying game. Remember to play to the strengths of the medium - most all of which are about character, not plot. Only in an RPG can you experience a fictional character on a personal, first-hand level. Outline your adventures to make the most of that. Any plot that contains more than a basic structure is more likely to pull attention away from character, and that's burning the bridge for firewood.

Edit: Now that I got that out of the way, let me say a few more things. I think that only a certain subset of the audience feels that they need story-rich products. I tend to rate products highly that entrain good story potential in with the mechanics. You know the type, ones in which you conceive stories as you read them. Examples are Legions of Hell and Requiem for a God, both products which I rated higher than other reviewers.