What hasn't been done?

[Stormborn]

Kipling said: "If people are asking for a swashbuckling game, then perhaps the current d20 combat system is at the wrong level of abstraction for what they want?"

This is exactly what I am finding in my own game. However, I think that there are ways to handle some degree of "Active defense." As my friends and I have begun to study acient swordplay we have been suprised at the level of active defense that goes on. People interested in this idea should check out ARMA, expecially the videos provided here:

http://www.thearma.org/Videos/TPVideos.htm

Would a defense role, a la Grim n Gritty systems, help model this? And make those who want more realism feel better?

 

[Dogbrain]

Geez Dogbrain... that seemed like a Rant.

I simply think it would be neat to have a Cinematic Swashbuckling game. Note the "Cinematic". I left a group because they tried too hard to make D&D "Realistic". They started using Lifeblood rules from T20 which just added to the time it took to run a combat due to extra records keeping. In the end roleplaying is about fun so realism has to take a back seat.

"Fun" is all a matter of taste. Do you think that your preference is all there is to humanity? I doubt that. Second, too many people mistake "lots of extra details and dice rolls" for "gives a strong model of how the world really works". ChartLaw is an excellent example of a tediously detailed system with zilch in "realism".

I think about the combat scenes in most of your swashbuckling movies and think it would be neat to have a game reflect that. The only one that I've found yet that even comes close is White Wolf's Combat book which replaces the normal Storyteller System combat rules. Different moves give you different bonuses and there are advantages to fighting with different styles.

Gee, sounds a LOT like GURPS Swashbucklers and/or GURPS Martial Arts to me...

The D20 combat system is incredibly abstract, and most of the people who use it haven't the faintest idea about what it abstracts--they presume that it is all Flintstone boxing. The problem with adding "moves" is that it presumes that the basic system does not already have "moves" built into it. As any of the corporte apparatchiks who have tried over the decades to rationalize hit points, armor classs, combat round length, etc., have made plain, the combat system DOES automatically include all those "moves" in it, even if it doesn't explicitly lay them out in rulespeak.

Thus, the first task for you will be to eliminate the effects of all those "moves" from the combat system. Then you can build onto what's left.

So, how much of the "moves" is in Dex modifier? How much is in hit points? How much is in BAB? How much is in "armor proficiencies"? How much is in weapon proficiency? Determine all of these. Excise them, then you will have something that can be detailed without getting silly.

 

[Privateer]

First off, Dogbrain (funny how that's your name, not an insult, eh? ) you seem to be getting a bit nasty and you're assuming quite a bit about what other people are saying, like in your recent post where you assumed just because someone said something was fun to him you assumed he wanted to impose that on anyone. I don't want to see the conversation go downhill, and it looks like it might right now.

Second, what you seem to be assuming, Dogbrain, is that we think normal D&D combat lacks parries and finesse and it's just "hit the other guy harder AGAIN." Of course, in our mind's eye, we see these things, but when we play a swashbuckling genre game we want to feel those things; we want to roll a d20 to see how our Ipsogardo-Magnifico School of Fencing training has deftly allowed our nimble courtier to dodge the clumsy swing of the untrained thug the villain has sent against our PC. We aren't looking for crazy, lengthy abstractions, as that would defeat the purpose. We look for a tangible difference in style and play mechanics so that we can feel the wind whiffing through our hair as we leap off the chandelier, dodge the blows of the guards, and skewer the corrupt prince with a different kind of rolling than when we face off against the dragon(s).

And, back on topic:

Do we have a middle-eastern d20 right now? I'm not aware of one.
Zombie-angst d20 (like what people claim V:tM is like, but with more "braaaains"-saying)
Crossdresser d20
Deli-clerk d20
Patriotic-Fireman-Who-Saves-Puppies-Out-Of-Trees-and-then-says-"It was all in a day's work, ma'am." d20 (only alignments for PCs: Lawful Good and Really Lawful Good)

 

[Stormborn]

In discussion with someone else about the topic, they mentioned that Skull n Bones is loosely inspired by Tim Powers' On Stranger Tides and that they would like to see a Drawing of the Dark setting - early 1500s, low magic, in the midst of Suleiman's expansion of the Turkish Emprie.

 

[Dogbrain]

Second, what you seem to be assuming, Dogbrain, is that we think normal D&D combat lacks parries and finesse and it's just "hit the other guy harder AGAIN." Of course, in our mind's eye, we see these things, but when we play a swashbuckling genre game we want to feel those things; we want to roll a d20 to see how our Ipsogardo-Magnifico School of Fencing training has deftly allowed our nimble courtier to dodge the clumsy swing of the untrained thug the villain has sent against our PC.

GURPS Swashbucklers.

 

[Stormborn]

GURPS Swashbucklers.

See, i think there is a point here. GURPS is out available and, dare I evoke it, RIFTS is available, but this is obviously a d20 site for people who prefer d20 games. I started this thread knowing full well about those possibilities, I even have most of the GURPS books. I believe that there exists an audience for books that deal with non-DnD settings and themes that are yet d20. Some of these settings and themes will require new mechanics. Not to make them more realistic, but so that people can feel their difference and enjoy it.

 

[Dogbrain]

See, i think there is a point here. GURPS is out available and, dare I evoke it, RIFTS is available,

Rifts don't do swashbuckling.