What have you done with Conjuration(Creation) spells ?

[marune]

2) They bypass SR.

The second reason is really about the only reason to use them at all. You can do the first with energy substitution. So to me the question comes down to "Do you dislike spells that can bypass SR." Cause if you are going to eliminate that aspect of the spells, you might as well ban them cause they're basically useless without it.

Yeah, that's the problem I don't like direct-damage spells without SR.

 

[glass]

Hi, so what have you done about those after you saw a balance problem with the various "orb spells" ?

Added SR ? Switch them to Evocation ?

You did the same with Acid arrow ? What about the fire/poison/etc. based ones ?

IMG, I have made them Invocations (invokers should be the best blasters* IMO). I have left them as Conjuration as well, but removed the Creation subschool and made them subject to SR.


glass.

EDIT: * Best blasters amongst wizards, I mean. Obviously, warmages and several other classes should and/or do blast better.

 

[glass]

1) They're a level higher than fireball or lightning bolt (4th) and only affect 1 target
2) They require a touch attack vs the auto hit for most area effect spells.
3) A number of them are d4/lvl vs d6/lvl for most blast spells.

1. Sometimes, only affecting one target is a bonus. Collateral damage is a bad thing.
2. But they don't have saves, unlike most area effect spells. Touch attacks aren't difficult to make, usually.
3. IDNHMBIFOM, but only the force (and possibly sonic) ones are d4s. As they should be, given the advatages of force damage vs energy damage.

glass.

 

[Kerrick]

Personally, I don't think the orb spells are as bad as a lot of people think they are.

Mechanics aside, they don't make sense. Energy has always been Evocation (with the exception of acid - that's kind of a borderline case) and now it's suddenly Conjuration? You can't have it both ways - it's either one or the other.

 

[Ciaran]

Sure you could put anything in any school if you change the flavor of the spell, but that breaks the game when Diviners can use a Divination Death Spell or Abjurerers can raise the dead with an abjuration spell.

Hey, if Illusionists get a death spell, then giving one to Diviners isn't much of a stretch.

 

[el-remmen]

Why not have circles of protection protect against them?

If protection from evil protects you from summoned creatures, why can't it be ruled that it protects you from summoned energy?

That is, evoked energy is magically created right? While conjured energy is brought to the plane from somewhere else right and thus the means of bringing it was magical, but it itself is not? Thus SR has no effect.

Then I think a nice logical extension into house rule is that the "protection from" spells block them.

 

[marune]

Mechanics aside, they don't make sense. Energy has always been Evocation (with the exception of acid - that's kind of a borderline case) and now it's suddenly Conjuration? You can't have it both ways - it's either one or the other.

Under 3.x acid is a energy like Fire, Sonic, etc. It's why I talked about Acid arrow in my OP.

Also, there are some Conjuration(Creation) spells that produce fire energy without SR in the PHB.

IMHO, all these spells need a review, the orbs ones are also "a little bit" too much effective.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I don't allow the greater versions, although the lesser ones have been found occasionally.

Spells outside the PHB are allowed only on a limited basis, usually as part of theme for specific casters. These spells can be obtained from defeated enemies or independently researched by PCs.

 

[Elemental]

Path of least resistance--they're evocation and allow SR. Between those spells, the "like Fireball or Lightning Bolt, but no SR" spells, and Assay Resistance, I suspect the writer of Complete Arcane was playing a spellcaster at the time of writing and was sick of failing SR rolls.