What I Learnt From Last Night's Session

[Steel_Wind]

Do you happen to have a link to the post. It might be an interesting read. Personally I hadn't come across someone who had used anything more exotic than a horse, pony or dog as a mount so I would be surprised to hear if it was assumed by design that PC's would start riding Pegusi(sp?) and Griffons as they got higher in level.

Olaf the Stout

Dancey's post referred to the fact that there were four distinct power levels to D&D which change the flavor of the game about every 5 levels - and that this power shift is by design.

It was a small quote and the repeat here really does cover it. Don't feel as if you missed anything

Several other posts interpreted these level changes (and power shifts) as:

lvl 1-5: Grim n gritty (Conan, Black Compan)
lvl 6-10: Epic Fantasy (LotR)
lvl 11-15: Heroic Fantasy (Achilles, Classical over the top mythology)
lvl 16:20: Super Heroes (4 color - "out of my way, stupid dragon")

Given that D&D is designed in such a manner, the fact that all but magical steeds are easily slain by about 6th level or so is, accordingly, not at all shocking and is by design.

It's at that point that the power shift begins its inexorable ratcheting up and away from the mundane and towards the extraordinary.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

The problems area a) scale and b) environment.

In terms of scale, a horse is a dramatically powerful critter against warriors and commoners. It has more HP than most PCs at 1st or 2nd level. But when PCs beign to advance the ol' horse become so much monster chow.

In terms of environment, the PCs are always going to be underground, wind walking, teleporting, plane shifting and the like. That's one of the primary reasons why the paladin's mount became a called creature instead of a physical one.

 

[Spatula]

This has indeed been a complaint of mine since 1e. As it stands, the mounted warrior archetype is way under supported in the rules. As for those saying past 5th level I should have something like a hippogriff, well ... that's fine for some campaigns. But there should be a "Lancelot option" available, too.

Lancelot's a paladin. Problem solved.

You know, "horse" should really have a HD advancement track so you can buy purer, better bred horses (more HD) that don't bite it so early. (following the standard rules of monster improvement).

There have been tougher horse stats. I think MM2 has a dire horse? Or maybe it's a legendary horse.

IMHO, the only times I see mounts are small-sized druids, paladins, and blackguards...

That has more to do with large-size mounts being mostly useless indoors.

 

[Doghead Thirteen]

Maybe, but I like having the "only" cool mount when I play a Paladin.

Um, dude, no offence, but an attitude like that would get me asking very serious questions as to if a player belonged in my gaming group.

A boosted mount is fairly obvious for higher-level charas, and it's not just Sir Holy Knight who should have one - ever heard of Dick Turpin? Now there's a Rogue if ever I saw one.

And he's a Rogue who's famous for what? Riding his horse.

No I'm not a 'punish the Paladin' GM. I expect players of paladin-type characters to ROLEPLAY like they're holy warriors. I don't go out of my way to make the paladin fall. I don't shove lose-lose decisions in their faces. I let the player determine what is and isn't on for their paladin-type character, then expect them to STICK WITH IT.

Saying a paladin should be the only character class with a 'cool' mount is (IMHO) a bit like saying the Fighter should be the only class allowed a + on their sword.

 

[Herobizkit]

Most of my players prefer to fight on foot. When you ahve the one Paladin/Cavalier-type with his Mounted Combat and other riding feats, it makes for a really bizarre combat.

Paladin: "I charge, then I turn around and charge again."
Others: "We stand there and kill it while waiting for the Paladin to finish his tricks."

Mounts are a pain in the rump to care for, and IME they are largely more for story purposes (getting from A to B in 6 days instead of 3 weeks, for example) than as effective combat tools.

 

[Doghead Thirteen]

Considering that heavy cavalry are among the deadliest of pre-gunpowder troop types, it's always amazed me how useless cavalry are in most pre-gunpowder RPG's.

Stick Joe Swordsman on a horse and you've got Jim Shock Troop.

 

[Pants]

There's a Mounted Warrior PrC in the WoW RPG Book. It takes away the 'mounted warrior' concept from the Paladin (the WoW Paladin doesn't have that power and is, IMO, much, much cooler/better than the Core Paladin and all variations thereof) and makes it more generic.

Unfortunately, it still ties mount-power/survivability with a class requiring people who may want more useful mounts to significantly invest levels into, which many probably don't want.

Still an idea, I think it's a nifty little class, maybe not perfect.

Back to the Topic At Hand: I tend not to use mounts in game much for two, primary reasons:
1) They die waaaaaay too fast, providing little benefit. Unfortunately, if players see someone on a mount, their first idea is to 'kill the mount! kill the mount!' :\
2) I usually forget about mounts and/or the rules surrounding them. "Oh crap, that fighter is on a mount.... uhhh... I need to look up the rules for that... sorry guys!' Mostly this is because my players and I use mounts so infrequently that we rarely retain specific rules from encounter to encounter.

 

[KrazyHades]

In my experience, after ~5th level one should start looking into other more interesting mounts (as has already been stated), and presumably the enemies at that level would be similarly equipped. After all, though the price is somewhat high, it is far from impossible to have several Griffin mounts, or some such. Another thought is that high level NPCs and PCs would probably have access to particularly fine horses, for a large increase in price...as in increasing the hit dice!

EDIT: There area also great non-horse mounts for characters below 5th lvl.

EDIT II: IMC there is a CG-aligned band of bandit rangers called the Hiveband which use LOTS of different sorts of monstrous insect mounts. There are spiders, dragonflies, wasps, and many, MANY more. The players LOVE it, because of the great sense of uniqueness it adds.

 

[Warren Okuma]

A boosted mount is fairly obvious for higher-level charas, and it's not just Sir Holy Knight who should have one - ever heard of Dick Turpin? Now there's a Rogue if ever I saw one.

And he's a Rogue who's famous for what? Riding his horse.

Or Turpin might be a Ranger with an animal companion that's a horse.


Oh, and another solution is...
Awaken, barbarian levels, and controlled with the leadership feat. Just gotta think things through.

Thou shalt buff thyne mount. Ahem.

 

[Darklone]

First steps to get a horse that survives:
- Roll it's stats.
- Increase it's HD.

Both helps a lot IME till level 10.