D&D 3E/3.5 What if 3.5 and 4E split the market?

[Reynard]

Most of the complainers will eventually switch, and life will go on as normal. By the end of 2008 you will see about as many complaints about the switch to 4th edition as you do people ranting on a regular basis about the switch to 3.5. It will come up from time to time, but that's about it.

There is one very large difference: 3.x has the ability to live on with or without WotC's blessing, not just in people still playing it but companies supporting it. It is extremely dangerous, I think, for WotC to just decide to flip-off a portion of their customer base when that customer base has alternatives to dealing with WotC.

But for some reason people still feel the need to rant and rave and complain on the internet.

Given that "rants and raves" have already impacted 4E's developement -- see Eberron -- it might not be as wasted breath as you are implying.

 

[Malivar]

Ultimately, all the complaining online about the new edition "its to soon" "I've got too much invested in 3.5" etc. is pointless.

Its not going to change the fact that 4th edition is coming out and its going a certain direction (whatever that turns out to be.)

Most of the complainers will eventually switch, and life will go on as normal. By the end of 2008 you will see about as many complaints about the switch to 4th edition as you do people ranting on a regular basis about the switch to 3.5. It will come up from time to time, but that's about it.

But for some reason people still feel the need to rant and rave and complain on the internet.

Its like the old Simpson's episode where somebody suggests to Bart that they should go to the internet to get the opinion of the public, and Bart replies, "No, we need the opinions of people who matter."

Stating an opinion-be it one you agree with or not-is never pointless. It's the purpose of free speech and these forums! Now go away before I taunt you a second time!

 

[Thunderfoot]

The 'split' won't be a big deal. There will be no 60/40 3.5/4E because 3.5 will garner no support. WotC will quit support the medium in 2008 and any company that wants to continue to make any money in the market will merrily jump on the bandwagon...that's called business folks.

All of these supposed 'dissenters' are mostly blowing steam. If they want to play an unsupported version, they can, I still play 1E/2e, B/X/C/M/I and ODnD on occasion. But my main game is 3.5...for now. Frankly I can't wait for 4E, why, I'm tired of the glut of rules, the crappy supplements and the snarky 'refer to page X' while researching a rule, which leads to 'cross reference with page Y'.

The game will continue to evolve, it did so from the first edition and will do so until time ends. For those that think otherwise, do your homework. You cannot change the market just because you don't want to convert, everyone else is and you either come along or get left, plain and simple.

 

[Thunderfoot]

There is one very large difference: 3.x has the ability to live on with or without WotC's blessing, not just in people still playing it but companies supporting it. It is extremely dangerous, I think, for WotC to just decide to flip-off a portion of their customer base when that customer base has alternatives to dealing with WotC.

Except that WotCs customer base will be playing 4E, 3.5 is no longer their concern once the new edition drops, any more than 2nd edition was their concern when 3rd edition dropped. They aren't flipping-off their customer base, they are solidifying it. Business is about the bottom line and producing two systems is just plain dumb when you are barely making a return on the current edition. Once the switch over happens WotC won't look back and those companies that want to support 3.5 will be free to do so...and will promptly go bankrupt within a couple of years.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Once the switch over happens WotC won't look back and those companies that want to support 3.5 will be free to do so...and will promptly go bankrupt within a couple of years.

EDIT: I find it really odd that people believe a D&D market that lacks WotC, Necromancer, and (I believe) Goodman can't survive. Sounds to me that without these companies, a small company stands a better survival chance, even in a smaller market.

Besides, maybe said company can also support OSRIC and RuneQuest.

 

[Lackhand]

I don't think he meant to insult you (or 3rd parties in general).

It's more of a John Henry thing. The little guy can (and, mythologically, does!) win in such a situation, but it's definitely a Pyrrhic victory in the myth...
... and a Pyrrhic loss in the real world.

Still, indie publishers manage to stay afloat. It's just that the game changes from one where the publishing world is friendly to your product to one where your product is niche of a niche.

Neesh. ack! Edited out from under me! Ah well.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I don't think he meant to insult you (or 3rd parties in general).
[snip]
ack! Edited out from under me! Ah well.

Yea, I realized he didn't mean it as an insult like 2 seconds after I hit the submit button.

 

[Dragonblade]

Frankly the anti-4e crowd just boggles my mind. I can listen to the criticisms. Many well thought out, but at the end of the day 4e just seems like its improving so much I dislike about 3e that I just don't get it. Even the money thing. I'm not rich and I probably have more money invested in 3e books that 95% of the people posting on ENWorld. But I'll still buy 4e.

For me its like listening to a Geico commercial I heard the other day where a guy says he doesn't like Geico because he just doesn't like personal service. Thats what I feel when I hear some of the 4e complaints. I'm not trying to belittle your opinions, that's just how crazy it sounds to me. For those of you who hate 4e, you are probably equally dumbfounded by how people can like it.

Most of the things that people say they don't like about 4e, are things I LOVE about it. No Vancian magic? YES! No level drain? YES! Epic is core? YES! No Save or Die? YES! No more monsters as characters? YES! Mostly at will and per encounter abilities? YES! Saves as defenses? YES!

These all seem like such no-brainer improvements to me that not liking them is like telling me you love pollution and hate fresh air. I just don't get it. But you probably don't get why I like it so much!

I haven't even seen the rules yet, but I can say with confidence that I will never play 3e again once that 4e PHB comes out. This is the D&D that I have always wanted and I have played every edition of the game over 20 years.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Frankly the anti-4e crowd just boggles my mind. I can listen to the criticisms. Many well thought out, but at the end of the day 4e just seems like its improving so much I dislike about 3e that I just don't get it.
[snip]
This is the D&D that I have always wanted and I have played every edition of the game over 20 years.

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I can speak for me. Most of the mechanical changes sound great. The fluff changes, the base assumptions, and so on are not what I expect when I play D&D. Short of the long, this is my preference, my taste in games. Nothing more. Nothing less.

For those of you who hate 4e, you are probably equally dumbfounded by how people can like it.

Personally, I can see why someone likes all the changes. Frankly, I would love a game that included all the fluff changes ... if it wasn't called D&D. I play Exalted when I want to play a high powered, Matrix-action type game. I play d6 Star Wars when I want a cinamatic game in the Galexy far, far away. And I play D&D when I want average guys looking for adventure and wealth.

The want a first level fighter to be a nothing kid that picked up a sword and knows one trick. I want a first level wizard to have like 3 spells and then pray he doesn't die. And I want someone that walks into a dungeon and sings at the enemy. I don't want a fighter that is an uberlord master of fighting, nor do I want a wizard that is infinitely useful. I don't want the world to be populated by devil-blooded people or magical robots. Why do I want the weird things I want? Personal Preference.