What if... D&D had been designed BEFORE The Lord of the Rings!

[CarlZog]

To me, the most defining feature that Tolkien gave to D&D had nothing to do with the fantasy setting, but rather the "adventuring team" concept, a disparate group of heroes each contributing in their own way.

In the absence of Tolkien, I could see Prince Valiant and Conan offering similar medieval fantasy inspiration, but what he -- and most of the other potential pop culture inspirations of the time -- lacked was a focus on the group instead of the individual hero.

Creating an adventure game that focused on one individual would likely have resulted in a type of game with a smaller number of players, and less cooperative. I imagine we'd have seen a game where one or two played the key villains, one or two played the heroes and one refereed.

Carl

 

[Aloïsius]

I wonder if in the thirties with the machinations of Kaiser Wilhelm, the Ottoman Empire, the Tsarist Russians and the Great Game still recent history whether these elements of espionage and international diplomacy might have an influence.

Would PCs be modeled on Lawrence of Arabia for instance?

Ouch !

In the thrirties, kaiser Wilhelm was dead. Hitler was in power.
The tsarist Russians were dead, too, Staline had already repkaced Lenine. And the Ottoman empire was dead, with the arab world colonised by UK and France and Turkey under Ataturk rule.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Wasn't the whole idea of dungeon crawling in a large part inspired by the trek of the Fellowship through the mines of Moria?

I shudder at the idea of no dungeons in D&D.

Conan was dungeon-crawling 20 years before LotR was ever published.

Actually, LotR wasn't as big of an influence on D&D as a lot of people think. About 2 years ago, I read an interview with Gary Gygax where he said that Robert E. Howard, Fritz Lieber, and Jack Vance were much bigger influences on D&D than Tolkien was. The biggest Tolkien influence in D&D is the game's portrayal of elves, dwarves, and (pre-3e) halflings.

 

[Wilphe]

Ouch !

In the thrirties, kaiser Wilhelm was dead. Hitler was in power.
The tsarist Russians were dead, too, Staline had already repkaced Lenine. And the Ottoman empire was dead, with the arab world colonised by UK and France and Turkey under Ataturk rule.

Yes and

still recent history

 

[Geoffrey]

Magic would probably stem from Lovecraft, and would probably be done in a manner similar to CoC d20.

That would be a big step forward in my opinion. The magic system in d20 Call of Cthulhu is my favorite of any d20 magic system.

 

[Klaus]

Conan was dungeon-crawling 20 years before LotR was ever published.

Actually, LotR wasn't as big of an influence on D&D as a lot of people think. About 2 years ago, I read an interview with Gary Gygax where he said that Robert E. Howard, Fritz Lieber, and Jack Vance were much bigger influences on D&D than Tolkien was. The biggest Tolkien influence in D&D is the game's portrayal of elves, dwarves, and (pre-3e) halflings.

And even then, only dwarves and 1e halflings were heavily inspired by Tolkien. But D&D elves are a far cry from Tolkien's. Just look at any LotR-to-D&D adaptation, and the thing that gets most changes is the elf race.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Wow, almost every suggestion made here would mean I liked the game better.

Less or no emphasis on (now) traditional demi-humans? Plus.

More animal-men? Plus.

Fewer dungeons? Plus.

More swords, less sorcery? Immense plus.

Fiction in serial rather than novel form? Immense plus.

More competitive, or with less emphasis on equal party roles? Immense plus.

Heavier Howard/Lovecraft/Buroughs influence? Immense plus.

 

[Dark Jezter]

And even then, only dwarves and 1e halflings were heavily inspired by Tolkien. But D&D elves are a far cry from Tolkien's. Just look at any LotR-to-D&D adaptation, and the thing that gets most changes is the elf race.

True, D&D elves aren't the borderline demigods that Tolkien's elves were (unless you take the 2e Complete Book of Elves into account). However, there are still a lot of traits that D&D elves have more in common with Tolkien's elves rather than the elves of mythology.

 

[Dragonbait]

Wow, almost every suggestion made here would mean I liked the game better.
Less or no emphasis on (now) traditional demi-humans? Plus.
More animal-men? Plus.
Fewer dungeons? Plus.
More swords, less sorcery? Immense plus.
Fiction in serial rather than novel form? Immense plus.
(snip)
Heavier Howard/Lovecraft/Buroughs influence? Immense plus.

So when is this game coming out? I want it!

 

[Agback]

True, D&D elves aren't the borderline demigods that Tolkien's elves were (unless you take the 2e Complete Book of Elves into account). However, there are still a lot of traits that D&D elves have more in common with Tolkien's elves rather than the elves of mythology.

Dead right! If you can find a copy, read Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword, for a picture of elves in fantasy before Tolkien humanised them. Ouch!