What if... D&D had been designed BEFORE The Lord of the Rings!

[Nyaricus]

It is an indisputable fact that there would be neither elves or dwarves in any such game.

There would, of course, be elfs and dwarfs.

That's actually very true

back to what mcrow and fusangite were saying - I imagine that many of the races we'd be (eventually) be able to play in D&D would be more mythological in feeling. There were many things being uncovered about the Egyptians at this point and their gods were mostly anthropomorphic, so Hathorians (cow people), Nuttans (hawk? people) etc might end being quite common.

I also imagine that there would still be things like minotaurs in the game, but they' be very high-level challenges which only the most steadfast of the heros could defeat - like they were in mythology.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

My brief comments:

If it were an alternate me writing before the publication of JRRT's work, then it must be assumed that my father told me bedtime stories about magic rings and cloaks of invisibility, the my mother read fairy tales to me, and as I grew older I read those and adventure stories then as I actually did in the 1940s and 50s.

Elves would have been around, as one of my favorite fairy tales was about the 12 princesses that danced holes in their slippers every night with the elven princes. Also, as I read The Secret Commonwealth and like books most of the humanoid races would have been around--possibly more of them.

As for magic, the system would probably have been similar to the Vancian one I used in the original D&D game, as memorization of spells makes considerable sense to me. The m-u PC would have a list of possible spells and decide how many of each would be memorized just as Wizards do in the Chainmail Fantasy Supplement and the Dungeon! game that was based on that system.

As for THIEVES (forget the politically correct misnomer "Rogue"), they would have been around as i admired cat burglars, read the "Raffles" stories, and there were thieves in the Conan yarns as well. Of course their ability to hide in shadows was inspired by Zelazney's Jack of Shadows, so that might not have been included.

That's off the top of my head...

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Gray Mouser]

Some elements would not exist as they are now. Halflings would not exist; treants would not, and likely there would be no swords glowing blue in the presence of orcs.

There are swords in D&D that glow blue in the presence of orcs? Is that a 3.x edition thing, because AFAIK there weren't any such weapons in previous editions? Magic swords (and daggers) in 1e shed light when held if you playted BtB but none that I am aware of gave off a blue glow in the presence or orcs (not in OD&D, B/X, or 2e either IIRC).

Gray Mouser

 

[Yellow Sign]

It would have been Empire of the Petal Throne!

 

[Col_Pladoh]

It would have been Empire of the Petal Throne!

Pish & Tosh

Phil Barker was inspired by the D&D game to make the EPT game, and that's a fact.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Henry]

There are swords in D&D that glow blue in the presence of orcs? Is that a 3.x edition thing, because AFAIK there weren't any such weapons in previous editions? Magic swords (and daggers) in 1e shed light when held if you playted BtB but none that I am aware of gave off a blue glow in the presence or orcs (not in OD&D, B/X, or 2e either IIRC).

Gray Mouser

I do know that such was in one of the Basic sets (The Expert set, I'm thinking), and I don't have access to much older Dragon and Strategic Review material, it's very likely that such was included somewhere along the way rather than dreamt up whole-cloth for the Expert set. I also know I got it, and Mithril, from D&D and not Tolkien, because I never read any Tolkien until I was in my late 20's.

Speaking of which, is Mithril another Tolkien invention, or did it also have basis in previous stories? EDIT: according to a Wikipedia entry, Tolkien got the inspiration of Mithril from a silken mailcoat in a norse saga, but it implies that Mithril in the form we know it is all from him.

Comes back to my original theory: The basics would be largely untouched, but the fine details would be very, very different.

 

[Yellow Sign]

Pish & Tosh

Phil Barker was inspired by the D&D game to make the EPT game, and that's a fact.

Cheers,
Gary

True but EPT had none of the Tolkien elements but used the same basic D&D rule set model.

(WOW! Gary Gygax responded to one of my posts! *happy dance* )

 

[Col_Pladoh]

I do know that such was in one of the Basic sets (The Expert set, I'm thinking), and I don't have access to much older Dragon and Strategic Review material, it's very likely that such was included somewhere along the way rather than dreamt up whole-cloth for the Expert set. I also know I got it, and Mithril, from D&D and not Tolkien, because I never read any Tolkien until I was in my late 20's.

Speaking of which, is Mithril another Tolkien invention, or did it also have basis in previous stories? EDIT: according to a Wikipedia entry, Tolkien got the inspiration of Mithril from a silken mailcoat in a norse saga, but it implies that Mithril in the form we know it is all from him.

Comes back to my original theory: The basics would be largely untouched, but the fine details would be very, very different.

Glowing swords were in D&D before the Expert Set was written.

To the best of my knowledge and belief, JRRT invented mithril, a sort of super strong silver IMO, something like silver stronger than steel but with the weight of titanium.

Actually many of the details would be the same, as most of the Tolkien-influenced material was added to the mix to broaden the appeal of the underlying fantasy action-adventure

Cheers,
Gary

 

[SpiralBound]

Cool.. and I didn't even need to use a chalk circle, goat's blood or anything!

Seriously though, since you are here, what do you think would have been different (if anything) about the style or tone of the adventures themselves, there has been some considerable speculation above about how it might be different owing to the different time period in which it would have been conceptualized (20-30s).

Also, how about those funny looking dice? Still the same? Just d6? A spinner? Cards? not nearly as much random elements in the mechanics? none? What do you think?

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

Thanks for reading Gary!

My brief comments:

Elves would have been around, as one of my favorite fairy tales was about the 12 princesses that danced holes in their slippers every night with the elven princes. Also, as I read The Secret Commonwealth and like books most of the humanoid races would have been around--possibly more of them.

I'll certainly need to check out The Secret Commonwealth. And of course any other fantasy texts written before 1936 that you might recommend would be great!

I can imagine a game with a fantastic fairy land menagarie of races, a veritable Goblin Market if you will!

As for magic, the system would probably have been similar to the Vancian one I used in the original D&D game, as memorization of spells makes considerable sense to me. The m-u PC would have a list of possible spells and decide how many of each would be memorized just as Wizards do in the Chainmail Fantasy Supplement and the Dungeon! game that was based on that system.

I imagined a pD&D as being a hybrid of Chainmail and Dungeon! for sure, with a bit of parlor-room glitz. And possibly a spinner instead of dice, and chess-like pieces representing the players.