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<blockquote data-quote="kigmatzomat" data-source="post: 9275904" data-attributes="member: 9254">I was fond of 3e where everyone had a class.&nbsp; Not just because of that but because they also had demographics.Pick up any classless/point buy system and you almost always have archetypes or skill thresholds that show various levels of competency.&nbsp; A police officer with +3 firearms vs a sniper with +5, or where 50%/60%/70%/80% is high school-semitrained/ BS trained/MS professional/PhD-expert/olympian-legend.&nbsp; We know that most people are going to be in that 50-60% zone, with 70% being exceptional in the overall populace and 80% is just rare.&nbsp; We can tell if a character can hold their own in a bar fight or drive a car in a hurricane.5e gives you....nothing.&nbsp; abso-smurfly nothing. &nbsp;How good are the social skills of the mayor of a city of 1,000 likely to be? What about the mayor of a city of 25,000?&nbsp; Will it be +3?&nbsp; +9?&nbsp; +12?&nbsp; In 3e you could look at a city's size and&nbsp; have a clue what was likely the best available.&nbsp; The 3e demographics set the highest level of each class and how many of each lower level there are.&nbsp; It sets expectations.&nbsp; Any 13th level 3e character can't have a skill greater than 16 and likely a bonus of +4 for a total of +20.&nbsp; A 3rd level character skill max is 6 and stat bonuses will be closer to +1 for a +7.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kigmatzomat, post: 9275904, member: 9254"] I was fond of 3e where everyone had a class. Not just because of that but because they [I]also[/I] had demographics. Pick up any classless/point buy system and you almost always have archetypes or skill thresholds that show various levels of competency. A police officer with +3 firearms vs a sniper with +5, or where 50%/60%/70%/80% is high school-semitrained/ BS trained/MS professional/PhD-expert/olympian-legend. We know that most people are going to be in that 50-60% zone, with 70% being exceptional in the overall populace and 80% is just rare. We can tell if a character can hold their own in a bar fight or drive a car in a hurricane. 5e gives you....nothing. abso-smurfly nothing. How good are the social skills of the mayor of a city of 1,000 likely to be? What about the mayor of a city of 25,000? Will it be +3? +9? +12? In 3e you could look at a city's size and have a clue what was likely the best available. The 3e demographics set the highest level of each class and how many of each lower level there are. It sets expectations. Any 13th level 3e character can't have a skill greater than 16 and likely a bonus of +4 for a total of +20. A 3rd level character skill max is 6 and stat bonuses will be closer to +1 for a +7. [/QUOTE]

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