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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 9276350" data-attributes="member: 2067">I do think that out of the book, it varies with the class, as pointed out above.I also think that part of the "martial problem" is the lack of specificity for the fighter especially.If I imagine a class that is a [Mercenary], I can envision a bunch of specific mechanics that get that vibe working. Okay, so you make money with your fighting, so you're going to be reasonably good at social skills (Persuasion, Intimidation, maybe Performance for demonstrations of martial prowess), you can make good contacts in town. You're also going to be good at repairing your gear and adapting on the fly. Maybe some knowledge of the kinds of D&D humanoids that the D&D civilizations are always at war with - you know orcs and kobolds, you've seen an ogre on the battlefield. If I imagine a class that is a [Knight], it's the same way. Okay, you get a mount, you get the best , most expensive armor. Your courtly knowledge is good, you have a patron, maybe you know art and music and other refined qualities. You are brave and bold (advantage vs. fear?) and you know how to slay a dragon and court a princess.If I imagine a class that is a [Duelist], we've got a different vibe. Dex-based, rapier, witty repartee. Courtly knowledge, but you're a scamp, so maybe some mechanics about luck, deceit, and striking at advantage (not literally sneak attack, but maybe evoke the vibes of sneak attack a bit)But a [Fighter] is...what, exactly? There's not an archetype there. The class is a useful tool for realizing a variety of archetypes, but there's not many markers in fiction of being a fighter. Barbarian, paladin, ranger, sure, but Fighter? Hmm..The rogue suffers from this problem to a lesser degree. It's chassis is "Martial and uses light armor and Dex instead of heavy armor and Str," but of course there's the Brutal Rogue or the Dexterous Fighter that messes with that divide. The rogue itself isn't much of an archetype. It's a tool for realizing a variety of archetypes.Clerics also have a bit of this problem, given how dependent they are on their god for getting their core mechanics. But even a cleric of a death god is a healer. I imagine the diegetics of classes in D&D like this:The PC's are exceptional. They are unique in the world. But their uniqueness is a matter of scale, not of kind. The Fighter is special, but she exists in a world of warriors of various degrees of skill. The Rogue is special, but he exists in a world of scofflaws and assassins. The Cleric is special, but they exist in a world of magical priests. The Bard is special, but the idea of making magic out of music isn't unique to them. The Wizard is special, but there's lots of people who study books and cast spells from them.</blockquote>

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