What if Making an AoO When Threatened Provoked?

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Imagine a situation in which a fighter (A) is engaged in combat with two orcs (B & C) and all three are in adjacent squares to one another.

If one of the orcs (B) performs a distracting act or moves in such a manner so as to provoke an AoO from the fighter (A), what if that AoO provoked another AoO from the other orc (C)?

How much would this hurt the game? Some AoOs already do this (tripping/bullrushing, for example)

 A B
 C

 

[Aluvial]

So, to clarify, you are saying that if orc B does something that provokes, then fighter A does something to provoke, while making his melee attack (in some type of special attack), you are wanting to know what problems does this produce?

I suppose that dealing with this situation could be considered tedious, but it is part of the game.

Specifically, what action would you suggest (tactically) that fighter A do to orc B that would provoke?

Aluvial

 

[Sepulchrave II]

What would be the rationale for an Attack of Opportunity to be more likely to provoke than a regular attack made by the Fighter?

 

[frankthedm]

How much would this hurt the game?

It would help the game by rewarding tactics and teamwork.

What would be the rationale for an Attack of Opportunity to be more likely to provoke than a regular attack made by the Fighter?

To take the opportunity, the opportunist exposes himself to others.

 

[nonsi256]

4 words: a lot of management.
You'll have to consider each combatant's position in relation to everyone else's. All the time.
I don't think you'd wanna go there.

 

[DumbPaladin]

Well, it would pretty much lessen the likelihood of your party having to worry about AoOs, because the people most likely to have strength in numbers is the party, not the bad guys. If you replace A with a bad guy, B with a spellcaster, and C with a a fighter w/ Improved Critical and a good weapon and what not, do you really want A to get hit by the fighter if he tries to stop the spellcaster?

 

[arcseed]

You seriously want to make it HARDER to AoO?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I've often wondered about this. Say the enemy's trying to flee and you use your AoO to trip or grapple without the Improved feat, so as to prevent him from getting away. I think by RAW you would then provoke an AoO from the target. It's a little ugly and if both sides are determined to make it silly (both have combat reflexes, no improved maneuver feats, and purposely keep choosing to use their AoOs for them anyway), it could create not an infinite loop but a fairly large one. However, if you don't impose the AoO for using a maneuver on an AoO, that's really unbalanced as now those actions are BETTER out of turn on attacks that expend no action whatsoever than they are on your actual turn. If the silliness bothered me enough, I'd sooner disallow maneuvers that would provoke an AoO for use on an AoO rather than give the maneuver user a free pass.

 

[CuRoi]

Let me see if I get your meaning - you want to make it so taking an Attack of Opportunity will also provoke an Attack of Opportunity from enemies that threaten the original opportunist?

Just describing it is a bit confusing (so I may have it wrong) so I'd say "dont do it". I agree with others that it could get pretty out of hand...especially once you factor in reach and combat reflexes. AoOs confuse enough people.

You mention tripping and bull rushing. They do in fact provoke AoOs from the target, however only Bull Rush will provoke from other adjacent enemies based on your movement. Trip shouldn't provoke from anyone but your target. But again, I may have your meaning incorrect.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

No, I think you got it. My meaning was two people ending up in a big chain of AoOs by using combat maneuvers against each other without the feats to remove the AoO from using them.

And I'd rather not do that and fortunately it's never come up. But I think that's how it would happen by RAW. And like I said, I don't like the idea of maneuvers suddenly being better on an AoO than on your actual turn. Especially since disrupting an enemy's turn with trip, grapple, or disarm is already pretty potent in the right situation.