What if: Modern Dungeons?

[Jon_Dahl]

I was thinking about running an Indiana Jones-ish adventure for my players based on modern times, but I started to think how complicated things are with laws...
- If there would be a dungeon filled with traps and monsters, would you have the right to go there by yourself? Would your insurance cover any accidents?
- If something would attack you and you would kill it as self-defense, would you have to call the police?
- If you found some loot, could you keep it?
- If you would only do this (dungeon crawl) as your day-job, what would be legal profession? And how much would you pay taxes?
- Could you do this in another country too?

Summa summarum: How would classical D&D-crawlers fare in modern world, if such dungeons with monsters and hoards of gold would exist?

In my case the players would stumble to a cave in Italy and without any permit for an excavation they'd enter the cave (no actual excavation needed) and find an ancient Roman treasure cache worth of millions of dollars. My players aren't naive, so I'd like to have a decent explanation for them why they can just take the gold and go back home. Or could they? I don't know... Damn, I need to get back to D&D, this modern law stuff is too hard!

 

[the Jester]

I'd look at modern day treasure hunters for an idea of how this would work in our world- most of them hunt shipwrecks AFAIK.

Think about the potential lawsuits over the demon you released from its bonds!

 

[Guest 85555]

I was thinking about running an Indiana Jones-ish adventure for my players based on modern times, but I started to think how complicated things are with laws...
- If there would be a dungeon filled with traps and monsters, would you have the right to go there by yourself? Would your insurance cover any accidents?
- If something would attack you and you would kill it as self-defense, would you have to call the police?
- If you found some loot, could you keep it?
- If you would only do this (dungeon crawl) as your day-job, what would be legal profession? And how much would you pay taxes?
- Could you do this in another country too?

Summa summarum: How would classical D&D-crawlers fare in modern world, if such dungeons with monsters and hoards of gold would exist?

In my case the players would stumble to a cave in Italy and without any permit for an excavation they'd enter the cave (no actual excavation needed) and find an ancient Roman treasure cache worth of millions of dollars. My players aren't naive, so I'd like to have a decent explanation for them why they can just take the gold and go back home. Or could they? I don't know... Damn, I need to get back to D&D, this modern law stuff is too hard!

I think modern settings are even better for adventure than fantasy ones. Part of what makes them so great is the complications that can arise. JUst look at Indiana Jones as an example; a lot of these dungeon crawls and loots were illegal, but they were in 3rd world countries. If you want the party to work for a black market seller or something, simply have evading local authorities be part of the adventure. If you want them to be legit, you can still have cool stuff happen, but they are probably working for a university and have filled out the appropriate paper work before digging or exploring.

That said, you can take things too far with modern complications. It may be good to occassionally mention things like insurance as an issue, but better to have their supervisor (or whoever it is they answer to) deal with these headaches than the players themselves.

As for professions they could be anything they want. The most obvious occupations would be things like journalists or academics. But this could simply be a hobby (like people who climb mountains once a year or so and go back to a day job afterwards). They could also be part of a documentary crew.

In your Italy example, I think you need to come up with a good reason why no one has stumbled on this money before. If they want to take it and sell, they can, but doing so would be illegal and they would have to figure out a way to launder the ancient coins and artifact (there is a black market for this sort of stuff, so they could go that route---probably would have to deal with organized crime figures and the like).

If I were you, I would look up some Italy and try to find out what laws are actually on the books.

 

[Kelvor Ravenstar]

So there's three main options on who artifacts could belong too:
(1) The local government (and most often this is the case), who may allow trained archaeologists associated with museums or universities to excavate or house such artifacts on their behalf.
(2) The descendants of the indigenous peoples (however closely or distantly they are actually related to the original peoples). Laws and treaties with North America's native peoples is why archaeologists in the United States can't keep whatever they find, and consultation with the descendants of indigenous populations is heavily encouraged. Repatriation of artifacts can be a long legal battle, or a simple agreement between parties, depending on these relationships. This is less likely a factor with your particular adventure, but could be an interesting twist if the family of the Roman commander who left that treasure trove is looking for it too.
(3) It can be that artifacts are legally the property of the landowner, although this is the least common occurrence. If your group finds a Roman treasure trove in a cave, ask yourself 'Who's land is this on?' and do they have connections to local authorities or crime figures? I know I'd be scared if I excavated a priceless trove on the land of some mafia Capo.

All the above are huge generalities, like the previous poster, I agree that if you want authenticity, you'll have to research the laws of the region you're setting the adventure in. And they can differ a lot from country to country.

 

[Krensky]

Most first world countries have laws regarding found treasure. If it's something of historical value, (like the Roman hoard mentioned) you're likely looking at pennies on the dollar and fifteen minutes of fame.

In the US people who go to sell actual copies of historical documents find that the Archives or the Smithsonian allows the bid to run up to a reasonable level, then they shut the auction down and pay the current bid. Often this is mere courtesy since the documents in question are technically stolen property.

I think the end of National Treasure mentions the Team Gates getting a (small) percentage of the value of the Templer Treasure as a "finder's fee".

 

[Umbran]

These days, most countries have laws concerning the recovery of archeological findings ("ancient treasures"). You typically cannot legally just walk out of a place with whatever you find, unless you have some pre-existing arrangement with the nation in question.

Salvage at sea, in international waters, is a different matter.

In the modern world, if you kill a person, darned straight you're expected to call the police, even if they attacked you. Walking away from a crime scene is often itself a crime. Killing non-humans is a much lesser offense, but still can be a legal issue if someone owns the animal in question, or the species is a protected one. Even just discharging a firearm within city limits (and not on a firing range) can get you arrested.

I don't think there's some legally approved list of professions you can pick from. So long as you aren't breaking the law, you can call your profession whatever you want (at least, as far as I know, for most countries, anyway).

Mind you, most of these concerns go away if your adventurers are willing to disregard the law...

 

[renau1g]

I don't think there's some legally approved list of professions you can pick from. So long as you aren't breaking the law, you can call your profession whatever you want (at least, as far as I know, for most countries, anyway).

No, but there's a list you can't call yourself (at least here in Canada), which are recognized professions (i.e. doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc.). It's a hefty fine if you misrepresent yourself, but yeah, corner case.

 

[WizarDru]

In my case the players would stumble to a cave in Italy and without any permit for an excavation they'd enter the cave (no actual excavation needed) and find an ancient Roman treasure cache worth of millions of dollars. My players aren't naive, so I'd like to have a decent explanation for them why they can just take the gold and go back home. Or could they? I don't know... Damn, I need to get back to D&D, this modern law stuff is too hard!

For a modern dungeon crawl example, see many James Bond movies, where Bond infiltrates a SMERSH base, for example. But that's not really a D&D dungeon in the classical mold, obviously. It sounds like what you're describing is more of a Lara Croft/Nathan Drake kind of affair. Which will work, but the rules are very, very different than classic D&D tropes.

• Indy worked in the 1930s - I point this out because, quite frankly, things WERE different then. Imperialism was still the order of the day. The Kingdom of Egypt was effectively a British puppet state, for example. Indy could get stuff out of Egypt or any of a host of other nations because there was little that could be done to stop him, if he had the money, contacts and wherewithall. Just ask the British Museum. The same applies for the other venues he visits in the movies...countries that are, by and large, subject to rule by the British Empire or are so loosely governed and often corrrupt in remote regions (Peru) as to be easily thwarted (just ask the American robber barons of the age). Modern treasure seekers will find it much, much harder to avoid such scrutiny or simply evade authority when leaving a foreign country.
  
• "Bear Attack" - One time we played a Call of Chthulu game and a player was mauled by a Migo, but lived to tell the tale. At the hospital, we needed some excuse. We told them it was a bear attack. Modern medicine would make such things increasingly difficult, especially as some injuries would get the police involved almost automatically.
  
• - Not really a law, so much as a set of loose guidelines - Indy, Nathan Drake and Lara Croft all share some things in common: they have personal honor but they are TOTALLY COOL WITH BREAKING THE LAW. Indy, of course, is saving such artifacts from treasure hunters, while the other two are equally interested in the commercial aspects (and Nathan is willing to blatantly break the laws to do it). Modern adventurers who expected to rob some place like a cache of Roman Gold on Italian soil had better be prepared to sneak it out of the country and be aware they are stealing national treasures. In international waters, it's fair game...but on native soil, they take it VERY personally.
  
• A profession? - Insurance coverage and taxes are dependent on finding a professional title and insurance package. Anyone can be insured for anything...but it costs MONEY. Wanna skydive or spelunk? Expect your premiums to increase, just like it does for smokers or young drivers. Dangerous behavior is expensive. Taxes are dependent on property rights. If you seize long lost treasure, you'll likely be able to claim a set percentage from the nation who it originally belonged to, but they will likely demand it back (especially if that nation and your nation share treaties for this, such as the US and Spain). Even if you do all this under the table, museums have to keep records of acquisitions; only super-rich private investors can afford to acquire such items and cover the money trail. That complication means they pay less, generally.
  
• Self-defense - If you run into a lion on a nature preserve and kill it, you're gonna be in trouble. Kill some wolves on the taiga, maybe not. But most countries have very specific rules about killing people or animals; at best you'd be a poacher. Killing in self-defense is a trick you can't pull off that often. And you might still get fined, even if it's a legitimate cause. If you trespass in some historic cave in a UNESCO preservation site and then kill a protected species of animal while doing so, you may be off the hook for killing the wolf, but guilty of trespass and fined for hunting without a license.

In short, you're kind of in a different genre in the modern age. Unless you've got a setting that changes a lot of things, which you could have. And it'd be pretty interesting.

 

[Mark CMG]

I like when fantasy dungeoneering has the same sort of complications one would presume to find in modern day tresure hunting. While the "anything at all can happen" aspect of mega-dungeons designed by insane wizards and expanded by the descendant-denizens can be fun, I've always loved the isolated crypt in a burial mound, the formerly-used catacomb crawl, the recently discovered cave system found by fishmen as they round a seaside rocky prominence (perhaps newly opened at this end due to tectonic activity). I also like the idea of having all of these somehow tied together through happenstance so that you get a hodgepodge of environments together in a way that actually makes some sense if you have all the cards and knowledge to be in the know *cough*GM-only*cough*).

So, too, I like working from the premise that most people can fall to greed, and/or if they think they have a stake in something they will rationalize why they should have a share. I can see some scenarios above where the Vatican might lay some claim to anything from certain periods of Roman history.

I also agree that in a modern setting the location of the dungeon is going to be a big factor, both for the landholder and any governmental body, perhaps more than one department with the main government letting the departments fight it out (which avoids having any single arbitor of conflicts). Many have been mentioned above but to reiterate and expand on those concepts, there could be independent bodies involved over environmental issues, preservation issues, issues of eminent domain could be made by local authorities or even some international institution. It might be best to throw as many on the table as possible and allow the players to pick their favorite horse(s) then you also push the opposite as figuring prominently into the game, allowing the others to fall by the wayside as either unfounded or seen as crackpots. In this way you get player investment as well as a chance to clean things up early in the process to avoid the game being too muddy all the way through.

 

[Guest 85555]

It is probably worth mentioning that many realities are also glossed-over in fantasy dungeons. There would certainly be fewer complications, but there are still laws; and I'd bet in a world with undead laws against things like desecration are heavily enforced.