What is a Good Encounter Level for Characters at Full Power?

[Kel]

In the campaign I am about to begin, the first several encounters will be spaced out by a few days each, meaning the party will face each encounter at full power, and will have no incentive to conserve resources.

In that situation, what level should I make an encounter to make it a real challenge? Level + 2? Level + 3? Any thoughts?

 

[Jack99]

It is going to depend a lot on your group and which monsters you use.

N+2 or n+3 works well for my group, but it might for everyone. I would start at n+1 or n+2 and go from there.

 

[FireLance]

My suggestion is to make the encounters scalable. Start with a Level+1 encounter, and when the PCs have defeated their first non-minion opponent, make a judgement call based on how badly wounded the PCs and their remaining enemies are. If the PCs seem to be handling the fight well, add reinforcements (enough to make it a Level+2 encounter). You can do this again each time the PCs drop another non-minion opponent.

 

[Kzach]

It is going to depend a lot on your group and which monsters you use.

N+2 or n+3 works well for my group, but it might for everyone. I would start at n+1 or n+2 and go from there.

Yes, this plus ten.

I've been finding more and more that group make-up and roles and player tactical level, everything, can make a substantial difference. An n+3 encounter can be a breeze for one group only to be a TPK for another.

The best idea is to get a feel for what your groups capabilities are and test their limits little by little until you have a good idea of where you can push and where you need to back off.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Also, the way you make the n+3 encounter makes a difference. 5 monsters (or 1 solo) at n+3 is much different than something made of monsters that are closer to the PC's level. You could have a larger encounter (more monters), but one that doesn't involve hard to hit monsters that easily hit the PCs. Depending on how the PCs are built, and work together, having lots of "fair" enemies may be a better option than a couple of hard ones, and can help to lessen some of the grind in the encounter.

A big thing to consider is the types of dailies the party has. If they have the kind of daily powers that will influence the entire encounter (a barbarians rage, or wizard effects that are sustainable, stances) they'll work towards making an encounter less grindy, while the ones that just do a lot of damage and that's it, will seem a bit more like "another encounter power, that does a bit more damage" and contribute to grind.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Since they are starting out and there are several encounters I'd just make the very FIRST encounter an N. Not so much because the party will have a tough time figuring out how to deal with it, but just so they can 'get their feet wet'. If they are used to playing 1/2/3e there is a lot different mindset to combat in 4e. That way they start to get the idea. Sure it will be a reasonably easy encounter, but at 1st level there will still be some challenge to it.

Then you can hit them with an N+1 and if it is still too easy drop in a couple extra monsters and if that goes well then you'll have a pretty good feel for whether or not they should face N+2 or N+3 on the next one.

And yeah, 4e is fussy about levels of monsters. Especially at 1-2nd level it isn't too good an idea to drop a higher level monster on the party, even though it is technically an encounter built to the right 'cost'. I'd go with some nice low defense monsters. Zombies are great for that!

 

[Nifft]

MUST these "single encounters" actually be single encounters, though?

Example: Intercepting a band of goblin raiders out in the woods.

Encounter 1: Goblin Scouts; they release three homing ravens upon contact.
- 2 goblin soldiers
- 2 goblin artillery
- 4 wolf skirmishers

Encounter 2: Skill Challenge (Nature, Stealth, plus any trap making); determines who has surprise in the next encounter.

Encounter 3: Goblin Warband, wave 1 (initially 4 minions & 1 artillery; one additional goblin enters play each round thereafter)
- 8 goblin minions
- 2 goblin artillery
- 2 goblin soldiers
- 1 goblin controller

Encounter 4: Goblin Warband, wave 2 (appears after 5 minutes, all at once)
- 8 goblin minions
- 2 goblin artillery
- 2 wolf skirmishers
- 1 goblin controller

Cheers, -- N