What is, by consensus opinion, obviously broken?

[fuzzlewump]

What should be done about Magical Items? They aren't really boring as dirt or as interesting as a pair of socks. But I understand the intent of the hyperbole. I think items with only a daily power are lame. However, with a property they can be pretty cool. An at-will or encounter power spells cool. Just a property is sort of lame, but usually useful, like subtle weapon.

Maybe if they can increase how interesting the items are without affecting their power, at least, not directly? Like, a frost weapon does everything is currently does, plus lets you cast some kind of a Frost related ritual (for free) once/day, like conjuring magical frost that could put out fires, create paths of ice in water, freeze a unconscious enemy, etc.

EDIT: Important! And this out of combat usage should be more like 3E casting; well defined but broad so that it can used in more situations. Most current rituals seem, like my least favorite spells in 3E, too narrow/niche. Something like conjuring a fire (Conjure Flame?) can have very different uses even though it will always be the same spell. This cannot be said for a spell like "Arcane Lock." In that, it must be used a door, and it can only lock the door. Maybe not the best examples, but just the top of my head afterall.

 

[ppaladin123]

1.V-classes...especially the poor star-pact warlock

2.Classes that rely on separate implements and weapons (a swordmage just needs his sword, a paladin needs a sword and a holy symbol and most likely a shield)

3.Expertise feats and unbalanced race-based to-hit bonus feats (gnome phantasmist and draconic spellcaster)

4.The melee training feat tax..you guessed it, the battlemind is stuck paying it.

5.The clunky, confusing distinction between damage type and damage keyword

5.Implement users having to rely on multiple clunky damage-type specific feats with stat prerequisites to boost damage while weapon users simply take "weapon focus."

6. Having to choose between flavorful utility powers for use outside of combat and combat-specific utility powers. Check out the warlock for a collection of flavorful, intresting utility abilities that will rarely be taken because they limit combat options. There really needs to be two categories: tactical powers and utility powers.

7.Too many feats required to multiclass. The power swap alone is a sufficient trade off after the initial feat. Paragon multiclassing is a very weak option since there is no compensation for the lost paragon path features.

8. Rituals are too expensive, take too long, and often provide very short benefit durations.

minor issue: Half-elves should receive proficiency in the implements used by the class from which they receive their dilettante power, or, at the very least, should be allow to use the weapons/implements they are proficient in with the power. If my paladin takes an arcane power, he needs to multiclass and then take arcane implement proficiency (heavy blades) to have any hope of using the power. If my paladin takes a cleric at-will, he actually has to multiclass to cleric just to be allowed to use his own holy symbol with the cleric power.

And really...the dilettante ability should have been an at-will rather than encounter power to begin with.

 

[Leatherhead]

Not to be contrary, but what's wrong with rituals being purely out-of-combat effects with a monetary cost?

Other than hindering "protect the ritual" and "stop the ritual" type encounters?

Well, the gold costs could be used for buying permanent magic items. Or even consumable magic items like potions. So you are undergeared if you opt to make any significant use of them.

Significantly shorter casting times for critical rituals (like knock, we are talking 60 seconds max here) and Healing surge costs instead of GP cost on most non-creation rituals would have been a better way to go. Yeah making magic items has to use gold for balance. But other rituals are trading time (in one form or another) for gold. Why not trade time for time?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Condition Tracking can be extreme. But you can't remove them either, because then combat will quickly turn boring or repetitive as you reduce the tactical depth.

I guess the damage/hit point ratio could be improved in favor of damage, e.g. it takes less time to take someone out. The challenge is doing that without making initiative and focus fire over-important. Combat needs to be long enough to be able to make meaningful decisions.
Healing Powers need probably some "fixes" in that regard. Surgeless healing should remain rare and be limited to daily powers and maybe some epic encounter powers. Instead, more powers could grant temporary hit points.

Rituals with a faster casting time seem to be a good idea to me. Some rituals might even be useable during combat (maybe as a mini-challenge). They shouldn't give offensive powers, but being able to teleport from battle or open a passage through a wall sounds fine to me.

I don't think Skill Challenges require a new edition - Each new DMG can "fix" them.

The Expertise "Solution" should probably be reworked. The challenge might be keeping it simple and well integrated in the rules. A general +1 bonus at 5th, 15th and 25th level doesn't achieve that, in my opinion, it seems a strange extra modifier for no reason.
Racial Attack Powers and some Paragon Attack Powers that don't use Implements or Weapons suffer at the moment compared to implement/weapon powers due to the lack of expertise, so these need to be fixed. But theoretically, Errata could do this already.

Implements and Weapons - I think it would be neat if Implement and Weapon powers both would use a similar balancing mechanism - Proficiency Bonus + Damage rating. I am a little "worried" over the power balancing. Implement powers give you more options to balance a power, since you can vary the dice size and number of dice. With weapon powers, you can only change the number of dice.

A stylistic thing - I love the teleportation powers in 4E, but maybe they are a little too many at heroic tier? (Not that I would want the Assassin without his teleport between Shadows ability from the start...)

 

[catastrophic]

Woo, a functional 4e criticism thread, yayy
here are some problems and suggestions

*Items need a revamp, possibly a split to more mundane items (incluidng your average sword+x but also cool equipment and such), and fewer, more impressive Magic items.

*Likewise on rituals, they need to be based on a not-money mechanic, possibly they could be more skilled based and use other resources like action points or healing surges. Imagine if some rituals were 'harrowing' or 'gauntlet' rituals that you could get a bonus for if you used them after a milestone to represent an ordeal that is part of the ritual.

*Generally money should be revamped and put into a plot-based resource system. There should be tiers of weath, starting with coin in heroic, then adding on boons and hoards for paragon tier, and then some kind of pure magical power for epic. These tiers could convert to a degree, but would mainly be used for their own purposes- for instance, enough coin buys you a boat, a large enough boon gets you a castle, and the epic currency would enable you to cast permanent enchantments, create pocket dimensions, and the like.

*Certainly strip out the feat tax and other dodgy feat qualities, and generally it would be better if they had a focused policy of rules revisions, instead of using feats as impromptue patches.

*Skills challenges should be all inclusive by defaut, for instance a turn based system rather than a fail=lose system.

 

[S'mon]

Status effect powers. Too many, too fiddly. As GM, I hate having to track which 3 or 4 of my 6 monsters are slowed, -2 to hit, dazed etc. Stunned is ok as I can just skip that monster.

As a player I hate my PC being stunned, dazed is pretty bad too. Both as GM and player I hate Goblin Hexers and their Vexing Cloud power, it's just really fiddly, annoying and obnoxious whether you're on the receiving or imposing end.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Other than hindering "protect the ritual" and "stop the ritual" type encounters?

Well, the gold costs could be used for buying permanent magic items. Or even consumable magic items like potions. So you are undergeared if you opt to make any significant use of them.

Significantly shorter casting times for critical rituals (like knock, we are talking 60 seconds max here) and Healing surge costs instead of GP cost on most non-creation rituals would have been a better way to go. Yeah making magic items has to use gold for balance. But other rituals are trading time (in one form or another) for gold. Why not trade time for time?

For what its worth, these were my house rules for allowing rituals to take place within melee:

You can attempt to cast rituals in the midst of melee by attempting a complexity 4 a skill challenge (10 successes before 5 failures).

Each round you can use the appropriate skill to attempt to move closer to completion. The more effort you put into it, the easier you find it. You can only make one check each round, but the action you devote to it determines how tricky the check is. Once started, any round you don't work on the ritual is an automatic failure.

* a standard action (for an easy check),
* a move action (for a moderate check)
* a minor action (for a hard check).

If you complete the challenge you finish the ritual, if you fail the challenge you fail the ritual - either using up the components, or having the ritual backfire or something appropriate.

I think they do the job well because they
a) allow useful or interesting rituals to be a factor in a combat (on the part of either the PCs or their opponents)
b) doesn't entirely take the ritual worker(s) out of the combat - even when working hard they still have a move and a minor action around to play with, and if they are confident and well prepared they can attempt harder checks by using lesser actions.
c) Sit within the typical length of melee combats (in my experience)
d) Don't replace skill using characters, who can still do it more quickly, at less cost and risk.
e) Means that interesting rituals (and uses for rituals) can becoming an interesting adjunct to combat. Can the PCs hold the bad guys off for long enough that the wizard can arcane lock the door? Will the paladin be able to complete the raise dead ritual in time for the dead guy to escape with the rest of the party?

 

[Plane Sailing]

*Generally money should be revamped and put into a plot-based resource system. There should be tiers of weath, starting with coin in heroic, then adding on boons and hoards for paragon tier, and then some kind of pure magical power for epic. These tiers could convert to a degree, but would mainly be used for their own purposes- for instance, enough coin buys you a boat, a large enough boon gets you a castle, and the epic currency would enable you to cast permanent enchantments, create pocket dimensions, and the like.

This is such a brilliant idea that I want to marry it and have its children. No, really.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm going to go with my preferred bugaboo: Too Many Fiddly Bits To Lose Track Of.

So many "This effect ends at the end of your turn" from powers and monster effects and so on, plus situational modifiers, it gets to the point you can easily forget modifiers when they apply.

I agree - the fact that there are "ends at the start of your next turn", "ends at the end of your next turn", "save ends" (which is presented as better than ends at the end of your next turn but can easily be worse).

Same applies for conditional temporary bonuses which PC powers give to other people for one turn, or next attack, or until end of the universe or whatever!

Status effect powers. Too many, too fiddly. As GM, I hate having to track which 3 or 4 of my 6 monsters are slowed, -2 to hit, dazed etc. Stunned is ok as I can just skip that monster.

As a player I hate my PC being stunned, dazed is pretty bad too. Both as GM and player I hate Goblin Hexers and their Vexing Cloud power, it's just really fiddly, annoying and obnoxious whether you're on the receiving or imposing end.

Completely agree here. It was one of the main things that turned me off running 4e.

As a player I find the most annoying thing about stun is that it turns off my "sustain minor" dailies. Grrrr.

 

[Cyronax]

1.V-classes...especially the poor star-pact warlock

3.Expertise feats and unbalanced race-based to-hit bonus feats (gnome phantasmist and draconic spellcaster)

4.The melee training feat tax..you guessed it, the battlemind is stuck paying it.

One of my few house rules in 4e have been to ban all 'Expertise' type feats as well as the Melee Training feat.

I to hate must-have feat taxes. I also see nothing wrong with a Rogue or Avenger being bad at normal melee basic attacks.

Feats like Gnome Phantasmist or are flavorful and help distinguish the PC.