What is Expected from an Oriental Game Setting?

[GQuail]

This is a topic I'm glad to see threadcromancied, because it's something I've had to give some thought to lately. My home campaign has made it's way to our oriental section, and I'd spent a fair bit of time doing some reading (both real books on oriental culture & mythology, and also RPG books) to try and get it just right.

The big concern for me was that historical accuracy maybe wasn't the way to go if I wanted the players to treat the land as true travellers from medieval-ish Europe would. Even thirty years ago, the east was a slightly more exotic place, hence the rather quaint preface to the first Oriental Adventures book: nowadays, the oddities of Japan and China's history and culture are much better known, especially in geek circles. In a way, throwing in historically accurate Samurai was "too safe".

In the end, I threw together some bits from Kara-Tur and Rokugan for the shell of the world, and then made a big shift in the way divine casters were portrayed - I took Clerics and Paladins out completely from the two Lung empires and gave them the Magic of Incarnum classes instead. This helped portray their religion as truly foreign, and also gave a hook to keep the cultures different - without easy access to Remove Disease or Raise Dead, Kara-Tur suddenly seemed a lot more than just a re-skin of D&D normality. (OK, so there may be some Spirit Shamans in the Tibet-esque region, but the principle stands. )

I also have a Great Wall of China-esque thing which is actually a huge Incarnum channeling device, essentially built by an ancient empire to help keep the soul energy of the empire recycling. All this meant that I got to use Incarnum in a slightly better way than just saying "Er, there's an alternate magic system that's always been there, honest" and toss a few country details and plot hooks in as well. I used some typical OA classes and races as well as adding in some others: Catfolk seemed a good fit, as did the Dvati (a very strange race from the Dragon Compendium).

As other posters have said, you don't treat your medieval or Tolkein-esque settings to huge complaints about the "lack of proper Spanish material" or "incorrect definitions of 'priest'". D&D has always been a game that held other cultures at gunpoint, took their precious things, threw them in a big pot and then swam in it naked while giggling maniacally to itself and wondering how much XP their deities would be worth. An oriental game setting is, ultimately, still a game setting and should be treated accordingly - historical accuracy being way below the concerns of general purpose fun. ;-)

 

[Ranger REG]

historical accuracy being way below the concerns of general purpose fun. ;-)

Meh. I just want cultural distinction, not historical distinction.

 

[CruelSummerLord]

But aren't dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings, etc., borrowed elements from European folklore?

This is a case of adapting the "culture" in question to fit the needs of the setting. I'm approaching this question as a worldbuilder, and any D&D setting I created or ran as a DM (if I gamed, that is, which I don't) would have the standard demihuman and humanoid races set out in the 1E Monster Manual as a staple of the setting-if there are no elves or orcs, it is not a true D&D setting in the sense of what I, personally, consider to be D&D. As a player, I would happily ignore such feelings and play by the rules the DM establishes for his setting, but as a worldbuilder/would-be DM, it would not be a D&D game unless the fantasy staples were spread around the world. Again, I make a distinction between being a player and being a worldbuilder-if I'm playing in someone else's sandbox, as I would be if I were a player in someone else's game, that person makes the rules and I have to abide by them. If he says elves are extinct, that's the way things go. If he says no dragonborn or tieflings, that's the end of the matter. If he has steampunk technology along with other standard tropes, he has every right to do so. Some of it might not be my personal preference, but the DM has the right to develop his setting as he sees fit. For me, though, the D&D setting I have in mind takes the demihuman and humanoid races outlined in the 1E Monster Manual and Player's Handbook as written by Gary Gygax, and uses them as a fundamental element. Just as the "Oriental" part of the setting uses the exact same Vancian fire-and-forget magic system as the "Occident", so too does the Orient have its dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings, orcs, goblins, ogres, etc., just as does the Occident. Besides which, I think it's a fun creative challenge to see how these races would be influenced by different types of cultures-it would also be an interesting way of better bridging the gap between the parts of the setting inspired by Europe and those inspired by the rest of the world.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Akira Kurosawa as a GM?

Wars, fueding, tenticle monsters, scary school girls, new weapons, new combat paths, new magic, and words that don't sync up with mouth movements.

If this happens, I doubt it will happen in less than two years. FR this year. Eberron next year. Then, maybe OA.

 

[Hussar]

What always bugs me about OA, at least from what I've seen, is as soon as you say Oriental Adventures, everyone sees Feudal Japan. Ninjas and Samurai and whatnot.

I actually completely agree with ProfessorCirno on this. And CruelSummerLord for the most part. I have no problems rejiggering the core races, that doesn't bother me, but, instead of trying to recreate a historical/fantasy Japan, why not just make a fantasy setting that incorporates enough cultural distinction to move it away from traditional Eurocentric D&D?

Gquail's ideas of replacing classes is excellent. Not with very narrow archetype classes like "ninja" or "samurai" but with generic classes, the way classes should be IMO. Shoehorning the setting into these very narrow concepts is just way too jarring for me.

Thanks for the Jade linkies by the way. Will be checking that out.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Kara-Tur was fine as far as Shou Lung, Tu Lung, Kozakura, Wa and maybe the Hordelands went. After that, all the other nations were too too similar to existing cultures. Sure I'd like to see some Tibetan influence somewhere, but not with a nation called Tabot that's so obviously based on Tibet a few hundred years ago. Koryo, one of the biggest offenders, as that actually was the name of a kingdom from that area from where the modern day countries known as Korea is named after. They should try to go with some references, but don't bother getting too close to the cultures they're referring. I guess it's a good thing in this case, that there is a Spellplague around to rearrange a few things.

But certainly places like India, Manchuria, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Angkor Wat, Burma, and more should get exposure.

I think honor should be downplayed, because I feel that half of all player's will ignore such things. In my opinion honor should mean the same thing it does in any "European-based" game. Every culture has their own ideas of cultures, and I don't want to see an idealized stereotypical Japanese idea of honor touted as the one model of honor.

Some characters might want to play their characters as stereotypical modern Asians or maybe even as themselves, rather than some old stereotype.

And it's better to go with myths of Asian cultures rather than 'historical accuracy'. Hindu myths had those Vinmana spiritual-airships/chariots of the Gods from the Mahabharata. The tops of mountains were doorways to other worlds. The idea of prayer wheels taken even further with flying temples suspended by the devotion of its monks. The Vietnamese disembodied-head Vampire known as the Pennagalan.

 

[ruemere]

Any chance to get a preview of setting? Just a little bit of art, some article on class or customs or anything deemed representative enough to make us crave for more?

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[jmucchiello]

Any chance to get a preview of setting? Just a little bit of art, some article on class or customs or anything deemed representative enough to make us crave for more?

The sig for Ashanderai (Frank) contains a link to where Jade Oath all started in Monte Coook's support forums for Arcana Unearthed. Lands of the Jade Oath is based on MC's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved. But saying that really doesn't do it justice. And I believe you can preview the cover art on Rite Publishing's website.

I'd like to see the OA conversation spun out into its own thread. It really has nothing to do with Jade Oath. They have different goals. Oriental Adventures is/should be made by WotC to provide rules for incorporating Eastern/Asian influences into your D&D game. As such it should be mostly generic in the same manner that the PHB is generic. Jade Oath is a specific setting heavily influenced by several Medieval Asian cultures.

 

[Qwillion]

what he said

thanks Joe

Ashandari is working on a guest article for my blog. Other than the cover no.

Its one of the advantages of patronage seeing things develop and having imput to make the setting what you want it to be, especially the adventure.

 

[Ranger REG]

if there are no elves or orcs, it is not a true D&D setting in the sense of what I, personally, consider to be D&D.

I disagree. D&D is about the rules. Nothing more. You didn't see Gygax and "Zeb" injecting elves in the original OA.