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What is feudalism/medieval to you?

I don't think most gamers really think in terms of actual feudalism. I don't even think the article really addressed actual feudalism. It seemed to be more along the lines of "something European-esque with a feel somewhere between Hyborian sword and sorcery and Dragonlance or Tolkien high fantasy." In other words, it covers a heck of a lot of ground.

What the article really seemed to be referring to is what I would simply refer to as Western Medieval Fantasy--ie, the default for Greyhawk, and to a lesser extend Forgotten Realms and Mystara. If you really want to get closer to feudal, you'll need to use Birthright.

I do think western medieval fantasy, sword and sorcery, and high fantasy are the three genres that should collectively serve as the D&D default. D&D can and should have all sorts of other options (Oriental Adventures, Arabian Adventures, Dark Sun, Planescape, Eberron, etc), but I do not D&D being simply undefined fantasy. "It has magic!" is not an appropriate descriptor of D&D identity any more than "it has a ball!" is a sufficient descriptor for baseball.
 

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I don't think most gamers really think in terms of actual feudalism. I don't even think the article really addressed actual feudalism. It seemed to be more along the lines of "something European-esque with a feel somewhere between Hyborian sword and sorcery and Dragonlance or Tolkien high fantasy." In other words, it covers a heck of a lot of ground.

What the article really seemed to be referring to is what I would simply refer to as Western Medieval Fantasy--ie, the default for Greyhawk, and to a lesser extend Forgotten Realms and Mystara. If you really want to get closer to feudal, you'll need to use Birthright.

I do think western medieval fantasy, sword and sorcery, and high fantasy are the three genres that should collectively serve as the D&D default. D&D can and should have all sorts of other options (Oriental Adventures, Arabian Adventures, Dark Sun, Planescape, Eberron, etc), but I do not D&D being simply undefined fantasy. "It has magic!" is not an appropriate descriptor of D&D identity any more than "it has a ball!" is a sufficient descriptor for baseball.

I think only world builders would have any real concern about the government systems, economics, etc. And then as DMs much of it can be hand-waved, as players generally don't care enough that it would matter. Perhaps giving justification to specific laws of the land, but hardly more than that.

And definitely agree that Cerelia of the Birthright campaign setting is the most feudally developed published D&D setting there is.

I still use sidhelien elves of Cerelia as what I use for all my current settings where there are actually elves (most of my settings don't include the standard races, so elves are a myth in my games, generally...)
 

I have to ask: just how "feudal" was Chainmail to begin with? Or OD&D? Did those games have elves? Spellcasting priests?

I haven't read Lord of the Rings in a while, but as an obvious foundation for D&D, was it a terribly medieval story?

Sparse cities with lots of rural ground between: check.
No electricity, printing press, nor steam power: check.
Demigods walking the earth as Wizards: wait, what the heck?
 

What the article really seemed to be referring to is what I would simply refer to as Western Medieval Fantasy--ie, the default for Greyhawk, and to a lesser extend Forgotten Realms and Mystara. If you really want to get closer to feudal, you'll need to use Birthright.

Birthright really doesn't have a feudal system in place in the default descriptions. Maybe a late medieval system with a royal bureaucracy and standing army, but that's something that typically associated with the breakdown of the feudal system rather than being part of it. And the Divine Right of kings which is intrinsic to Birthright is not something I'd associate with feudal rulers either.


To answer the main question, I see feudalism as an economic system whereby successive ranks of "officials" receive economic benefits in the form of land or other revenues in exchanging for providing military service to their superior, and in which that system extends to the highest level of the hierarchy. It compares to some other systems wherein people who had a certain amount of wealth were obligated to present themselves at an army muster with the appropriate equipment or to provide and equip a replacement - in both cases, with the person present being expected to, if necessary, fight. Or other systems where an individual or organisation recruits and pays people to fight on their behalf and in their name, without regard for whether that person is expected to do this by a feudal or other legal relationship. In many circumstances, these system overlap. So for example an English monarch might have an army that included troops raised under the liege/vassal system characteristic of feudalism, mercenary troops that are raised and paid by professional captains, and troops raised under the still existing Anglo-Saxon levy system wherein free men are expected to muster when called upon.
 


One thing which is oft forgotten is the importance of religion in fedual times. In Europe there was Christianity. In Japan a Buddist / Shinto mix.

I don't really think anybody is forgetting that. As far as Europe goes, Catholicism dominates under the Pope for most of western history driving many of the main events - establishing the Holy Roman Empire, the Crusades, even the religious wars during the formation of Protestant Reformation. In a sense individual sovereignties fall either under direct control of the church, at least until the rise of nations and republics at the end of the medieval/renaissance period.

I can agree that many representations of Japan in RPGs kind of hand-wave religion, often including aspects of Shinto in some form or other, but almost never delving into concepts of Buddhism. My development of the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) has included a much stronger presence and development of both Buddhist and Shinto concepts more directly into the structure of the setting itself. Even the cosmology of Kaidan differs from the rest of standard D&D/PF universe.

The basic gist of Buddhism is that all beings are trapped in an endless cycle of reincarnation, unless one can shrug material things and follow a strict practice of rites that helps one achieve enlightenment - in order to gain the state of Nirvana, a kind of spiritual perfection, and escaping the reincarnation cycle. Kaidan cosmology incorporates the social caste system with the additions of non-humans and hell itself as the body of the reincarnation cycle - the states of being one achieves in the reincarnation process, at PC death comprise the cosmology of the setting. Rather than calling it Buddhism, in Kaidan its called Zaoism - which is kind of a contraction of Zen and Taoism, as it is not strictly purely realworld Buddhism, but much closer than any other oriental settings relationship to that religion. In Kaidan you don't just hand-wave Buddhism, it is intrinsic to the setting.

Unlike many RPG settings of Japan analogs, Kaidan's treatment of Shinto is really not comparable to polythiestic structures like typical D&D/PF settings - as it has been treated in most previously published Japan analogs. While Shinto tradition indicates their are 8 million kami spirits, this is really just a way to describe an infinite number of such beings. So instead of named list of the major dozen or so deities or near deity spiritual beings, in Kaidan there is literally an infinite number of beings, though many are named, many are not. Shinto primarily comprises nature spirits of animistic behavior, though it also includes the spirits of deceased living beings, and the deification of the emperor as part of bloodline of major deities of the Shinto religion. Kaidan relies more on the nature spirit aspect, and that each spirit is bound (by choice) to unique locations of natural beauty as a kind of portal between the spiritual realm and the land itself. Any place of natural beauty such as waterfalls, canyons, rocky islets along the coast, holy mountains, holy rivers distributed across the land are the bound portal areas inhabited by such spirits. Kannushi are Shinto clerics that have the unique ability to change one of its domains to whatever local spirit has influence. These local spirits region of control is limited to a few miles from their earthly portal area. When kannushi move from location to location, they must attempt to commune with each local spirit and appease it to gain spellcasting powers in that region. Of course, Kaidan calls its version of Shinto, something else. Since in Kaidan this belief system was first adopted by the yokai (animal based sentient beings - hengeyokai, kappa, kitsune, and tengu), it is called Yokinto (so as not to adopt the actual named religion).

Kaidan is considered a very esoteric setting because of its reliance on the spiritual nature of Shinto and the reincarnation structure of Buddhism - it isn't just hand-waved, rather its entirely dependant on those religions.
 

That really does sound like the best fantasy Japan ever. (Oriental Adventures was pretty good, but I don't think it distinguished enough between Buddhism and Shinto.) Now I wish I had gotten that credit card on Friday, so I could buy this product.

Also, how do you get those endless maps? The purchase link seems to be down.
 

That really does sound like the best fantasy Japan ever. (Oriental Adventures was pretty good, but I don't think it distinguished enough between Buddhism and Shinto.) Now I wish I had gotten that credit card on Friday, so I could buy this product.

I've always loved Oriental Adventures, but being half-Japanese and an amateur historian (and Japanophile), it never quite did fantasy Japan as I would design it. So I finally did design it, and Kaidan is the result.

Also, how do you get those endless maps? The purchase link seems to be down.

I'm converting the Endless Terrain Battlemaps into a PDF product containing 8 different sets of 8 tiles. I'm getting out of the print business and going to publication, PDF map product design, printable and VT map sets, and map icon sets. I've already got one product on DTRPG, a set of 50 Undersea Sealife Map Icons (photo-realistic, most were created in 3D). Plus I am currently about to release a Map Tutorials Guide book and more.
 

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