What is Greyhawk?

[Shardstone]

Sounds like almost every other Fantasy setting tbh, just a lot less races.

 

[David Howery]

DM, I running Greyhawk. I made my own map. Players “sigh”

actually, if you run a campaign in GH, you're bound to be making a lot of local maps, since GH doesn't have a lot of local detail. There is a really good pair of continental maps though...

 

[David Howery]

Sounds like almost every other Fantasy setting tbh, just a lot less races.

? They have all the 'standard' races from the PHB (although dragonborn are apparently debatable). They don't have any of the unique ones from DS or DL, but then, neither do the rest...

 

[Zardnaar]

While the old maps weren't great and some of the content isn't up to today's production standards, or even 3E, there are still a LOT of folks redoing or making Greyhawk just as nice an experience as FR or newer settings, you just have to know where to look.

For example, Anna Meyers has an Amazing map that I've had players wish FR had.
Anna Meyer Online Greyhawk Map

This thing is like Google Flanaess, chock full of all the Living Greyhawk locations as well, an epic tool for Greyhawk lovers.

I also think that the Ghosts of Saltmarsh adventure showed that Greyhawk in modern 5E is just as valid and full of things to do. They took a small corner of it and developed it into a whole book. I hope in the future they allow folks to use all of Greyhawk in the DMs Guild.

Looks like she used the same software ad Midgard. Looks good.

 

[Barantor]

Looks like she used the same software ad Midgard. Looks good.

No idea, her maps have been up for years now and I think it's one of the biggest things out there for Greyhawk that often flies under the radar.

She has downloads of it as well broken up by Kingdom/Country as well.

I think with a lot of the original D&D creators and players getting older or us losing them that it'd be a great time to bring back Greyhawk. I know Gygax's sons have a kickstarter for their own setting called Gaxmoor that is almost over too, but it'd be nice to see the old stuff redone.

 

[Garthanos]

Mild quibble. When survival is tenuous, societies tend to have very strong rules of hospitality. So, suspicion, sure. Mistreatment without direct cause, less so.

That hospitality rules are so significant in such circumstances is missed by a lot of modern people it actually undermines civilization if they do not exist (they are emphasized in ancient celt and ancient hebrew and others too) . Places ruled by suspicion instead of assumptions of commonality (even nobles being cross culturally recognized etc) tend to be larger as they can afford to block the outsiders and others out. Having people is a resource ones strong enough to travel even more so.

 

[Zardnaar]

How do Greyhawk fans feel about Ghosts of Saltmarsh?

I like it they didn't blow the world up. Bought the deluxe cover.

 

[5atbu]

For me, a key difference is In order for the DM to run a really effective campaign in FR, they need to be up to speed in FR lore, history, regions, cities, etc, while those aren't needed in Greyhawk, as the DM can easily just insert their own creations into the world and no one would miss a beat.

Not true.
I really know very little about FR but I am quite happily muddling through and we are having fun.
But I sympathize.
For a long time I felt I either had to fully understand a setting and all it's lore or play a home brew.
After about thirty years I realised that every published setting is an invitation to home brew.
It really is your table and your game.

I am not sure why Greyhawk is different and needs to be played EXCEPT that a lot of people love it, it was the second D&D setting, and the one most early gamers came across first.

So why the heck not?
I'd happily home brew in it.

 

[5atbu]

I like it they didn't blow the world up. Bought the deluxe cover.

So did I, primarily because it was British first time out.

Know this?

The Saltmarsh Murders The Saltmarsh Murders: Amazon.co.uk: Gladys Mitchell: 9780099526193: Books

 

[Guest 6801328]

So I thought I'd write a separate thread about the essence of Greyhawk, and what it means to me. A thread where people can discuss the essence of Greyhawk (whatever that might be) instead of complain about Dragonborn.

I would start by saying that Forgotten Realms is a great default setting for 5e. It has a long history and abundant products and novels that can be used to fill it out. We have people, many of them active on this board, who love all of this history, lore, and canon of the FR and can recite it chapter and verse; in addition, FR has an excellent wiki. I often make fun of FR for its various spellplaguesunderings and what not, but for what it is (the uber-setting, the generic D&D setting) it is great. So my a priori assumption is that Greyhawk shouldn't be that. We do not need TWO generic settings. So, with that caveat in mind, what is Greyhawk to me?

1. It's humano-centric. This doesn't mean that all PCs are humans, just that humans are the overwhelming default, and that great care has to be taken when deciding on non-standard options given the likely choices for adventuring.

2. It's small in scale. You aren't saving the Realms; you're making a buck. I say that partially in jest, but this is partly the aspect of Swords and Sorcery that needs to be played up in a Greyhawk setting. Small scale DOESN'T mean small stakes, however. You can save (or destroy) the village; but there should be a lot less of the "saving the world."

3. There's always something bigger, badder, and more mysterious. This is related to (2). You will never have the power of the Mages who destroyed the Sueloise civilization. There will always be the past glories or dangers, the stories of Vecna and of giant ships crashing from the sky, of beings that strode across the landscape, that are told around the fires at night.

4. Civilization is tenuous, at best. The great powers and empires are in decline and their best days are in the past, and it is always questionable if the forces of civilization will hold off the entropy and darkness. Progress is not assured. The forces of destruction are constantly howling and looking for a way in, and, more often than not, they are about to succeed.

5. People just don't like each other. What do I mean, "people?" Well, everyone. There are long-standing divisions; Suel, Baklun, Oerd, Flan- and that's just the humans. Different elves can be distrustful based on geography or type (what is a Valley Elf doing outside of the Valley?), and demi-humans and humanoids will be met with more (or less) suspicion depending on the location. But see ...

6. People should be suspicious. So civilization is tenuous, but also spread out. The Flanaess is huge, and poorly controlled. That means that outside of a few of the larger and cosmopolitan cities (such as Greyhawk) people will tend to be suspicious of outsiders; after all, if survival is perilous, you, too, would be careful about extending hospitality to people you don't know.

7. Greyhawk is a a DIY sandbox. This is kind of the key to what I think is a good Greyhawk; it should provide adventure hooks, but not prescribe what adventures there are. It should be the canvas on which to paint your own campaign.


So, what does Greyhawk look like? Like the first Conan movie- vast areas of emptiness, mysteries that abound, small in scale. It's not Tolkien, it's Lieber or Howard. But most importantly, it is the space to create your own Greyhawk.

Sorry haven't been following this thread so the conversation may have moved on, but I loved this post. And those are all (more or less) reasons I like Greyhawk more than FR.

A lot of people cite all the books about FR as an advantage, that there's all this "lore". I actually think it's a downside. I've only read a few of the books (and detest them) so I'm actually mostly ignorant of FR lore. But all the official supplements seem to assume some base level of lore. I don't think it's intentional, but names and place and such get sprinkled about here and there, and although I'm sure the authors are thinking that you don't HAVE to know what they refer to, the reality is that it's hard to get the gestalt of the whole thing without knowing. I'm sure for people who are fans of all the books these constant references improve the experience, but for those of us who are in the dark it lessens in. (Or for me, anyway.)

So, yeah, Greyhawk: I don't recall ever having that same (negative) experience.

And maybe that's your point #7.