Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 6851657" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I think it is mostly due to being prior to 3E, which is the edition that codified the rules the most. Prior to 3E, there was a level of magic to the rules themselves...they were a bit mysterious and open to interpretation, and organized in such an odd way. Learning and interpreting the rules was like studying lore. </p><p></p><p>Just look at THACO. It's a more complicated formula than it needs to be. No, it really isn't that complex, but it has more steps than needed. Some players in our group would work out entire charts based on their character's THACO so they knew what they needed to roll in order to hit a given AC. </p><p></p><p>Saving theows are another example. Random types of effects seemingly randomly grouped together, and arbitrarily assigned a number. Why are poison and death magic treated the same? Why are rods, staves, and wands lumped together, but spells are something different? Very odd when you think about it. </p><p></p><p>Also, and maybe this is just my personal experience, but finding certain game materials was a bit of an adventure. I remember having to hunt for Unearthed Arcanna for months and months. I remember seeing one copy of the Dungeoneer's Survival guide at Kay Bee Toys, and not having enough cash to buy it. So I came back a week later to get it, and it was gone. I never wound up getting a copy. I remember my brother finding I6 Ravenloft in a drug store. The act of finding material was almost like finding treasure in the game. </p><p></p><p>So then 3E came along and actually addressed these mysterious processes, and tried to make sense out of them. So THACO and descending AC was out the window in favor of a simpler system. Saves were divided along attributes in a way that made more sense. And so on. </p><p></p><p>3E really killed a lot of the magic of the old system. </p><p></p><p>I don't think that's the only factor. I think the Internet has played a big part as well...people are more connected, word of mouth no longer means as much, and you can find and buy everything. We know what's coming out and exactly when months ahead of time and so on. And certainly nostalgia and all of that is a huge factor. But I really think that the 2E and earlier days hold such power because the rules themselves, and the game, were a bit fantastic.</p><p></p><p>Having said all of that, I don't want any of those rules to return, even though I love 5E for being more old school in design and feel.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 6851657, member: 6785785"] I think it is mostly due to being prior to 3E, which is the edition that codified the rules the most. Prior to 3E, there was a level of magic to the rules themselves...they were a bit mysterious and open to interpretation, and organized in such an odd way. Learning and interpreting the rules was like studying lore. Just look at THACO. It's a more complicated formula than it needs to be. No, it really isn't that complex, but it has more steps than needed. Some players in our group would work out entire charts based on their character's THACO so they knew what they needed to roll in order to hit a given AC. Saving theows are another example. Random types of effects seemingly randomly grouped together, and arbitrarily assigned a number. Why are poison and death magic treated the same? Why are rods, staves, and wands lumped together, but spells are something different? Very odd when you think about it. Also, and maybe this is just my personal experience, but finding certain game materials was a bit of an adventure. I remember having to hunt for Unearthed Arcanna for months and months. I remember seeing one copy of the Dungeoneer's Survival guide at Kay Bee Toys, and not having enough cash to buy it. So I came back a week later to get it, and it was gone. I never wound up getting a copy. I remember my brother finding I6 Ravenloft in a drug store. The act of finding material was almost like finding treasure in the game. So then 3E came along and actually addressed these mysterious processes, and tried to make sense out of them. So THACO and descending AC was out the window in favor of a simpler system. Saves were divided along attributes in a way that made more sense. And so on. 3E really killed a lot of the magic of the old system. I don't think that's the only factor. I think the Internet has played a big part as well...people are more connected, word of mouth no longer means as much, and you can find and buy everything. We know what's coming out and exactly when months ahead of time and so on. And certainly nostalgia and all of that is a huge factor. But I really think that the 2E and earlier days hold such power because the rules themselves, and the game, were a bit fantastic. Having said all of that, I don't want any of those rules to return, even though I love 5E for being more old school in design and feel. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?
Top