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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6868068" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p><em>The exact same blow</em> is ambiguous, isn't it? If we look at it from the attacker's point of view, the exact same effort and skill against a 15th level character is parried, or dodged, or somewhat deflected; or just as the attacker is about to connect s/he slips slightly in the mud and the blow is merely glancing (that would be one way the defender's "luck and divine protection" might manifest); etc. Hence, the 15th level character is not badly hurt.</p><p></p><p>If we look at it from a perspective that includes both attack and defender, a 20 hp hit on a 15th level PC is <em>not</em> the exact same blow, precisely because the high level PC is luckier and more skilled.</p><p></p><p></p><p>My response to this is similar to [MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION]'s: if you are happy to narrate "serious" wound that do not debilitate (the arrow in the back, the sliver in the neck) then what exactly is the concern that, after a day or two of rest, this non-debilitating wound has ceased to be any sort of burden on the wellbeing of the character?</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure why.</p><p></p><p>Or, rather, what exactly does hp recovery represent? If hp loss is being wounded, and hp recovery is healing those wounds, that gives rise to the question - why do 3 arrows in the shoulder not debilitate you, but the 4th kills you?</p><p></p><p>If hp loss signals an event of being driven towards defeat (because the character is grazed, or worn down, or loses some luck) then regaining hp means the character has come back from that wearing down. Which could be described as "soldiering on".</p><p></p><p>Gygax, in his DMG, is very clear that narration of hit point loss of monsters like dragons, golems etc is quite different from narrating hit point loss of PCs and NPCs. For the monsters, hit points are primarily "meat" or physical capacity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6868068, member: 42582"] [I]The exact same blow[/I] is ambiguous, isn't it? If we look at it from the attacker's point of view, the exact same effort and skill against a 15th level character is parried, or dodged, or somewhat deflected; or just as the attacker is about to connect s/he slips slightly in the mud and the blow is merely glancing (that would be one way the defender's "luck and divine protection" might manifest); etc. Hence, the 15th level character is not badly hurt. If we look at it from a perspective that includes both attack and defender, a 20 hp hit on a 15th level PC is [I]not[/I] the exact same blow, precisely because the high level PC is luckier and more skilled. My response to this is similar to [MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION]'s: if you are happy to narrate "serious" wound that do not debilitate (the arrow in the back, the sliver in the neck) then what exactly is the concern that, after a day or two of rest, this non-debilitating wound has ceased to be any sort of burden on the wellbeing of the character? I'm not sure why. Or, rather, what exactly does hp recovery represent? If hp loss is being wounded, and hp recovery is healing those wounds, that gives rise to the question - why do 3 arrows in the shoulder not debilitate you, but the 4th kills you? If hp loss signals an event of being driven towards defeat (because the character is grazed, or worn down, or loses some luck) then regaining hp means the character has come back from that wearing down. Which could be described as "soldiering on". Gygax, in his DMG, is very clear that narration of hit point loss of monsters like dragons, golems etc is quite different from narrating hit point loss of PCs and NPCs. For the monsters, hit points are primarily "meat" or physical capacity. [/QUOTE]
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what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?
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