What is it about Drizzt that you just can't stand?

[Edena_of_Neith]

The problem with Drizzt?

This:

The drow girl throws Time Stop.
The drow girl places a Prismatic Sphere around Drizzt.
The drow girl throws Rock to Mud on the surface Drizzt is standing on.
The Time Stop ends, both spells take effect, and scratch one drow ranger.

The drow is a cleric? Well then ...

The drow girl throws Harm.
The drow girl touches Drizzt.
The drow girl then whacks him with her mace.
The drow girl takes the unconscious Drizzt off for her personal entertainment.

Oh, it's a mean drow?

The drow girl ties up the body of Drizzt.
The drow girl resurrects Drizzt Do'Urden.
The drow girl puts a Ring of Regeneration on Drizzt.
The drow girl inflicts the Endless Death on Drizzt the Blasphemer of the One True God, Ruler of All and Nothing, Supreme Being of the Multiverse (Lolth, that is.)

The drow is a fighter?

The drow girl is smart.
The drow girl, gets an army of archers.
The drow girl and her army shoot Drizzt down.
The drow girl takes Drizzt's body for later amusement, and to prevent resurrection.

- - -

The problem with Drizzt is that he has a Confusion spell up that affects all drow that engage him in combat.

None of them think to employ proper drow tactics against this outlaw.

 

[kreynolds]

The drow girl throws Time Stop.

OK. I'm following along so far...

The drow girl places a Prismatic Sphere around Drizzt.

Not possible. The Prismatic Sphere comes into being surrounding the caster.

The drow girl throws Rock to Mud on the surface Drizzt is standing on.

That would definately slow him to 5-feet per round, but it would only give him a -2 to his attacks, and somehow, I don't think that would effect him that much. He also wouldn't sink above his head.

The Time Stop ends, both spells take effect, and scratch one drow ranger.

This drow girl might wanna double-check her tactics if she ever plans to face him.

The drow is a cleric? Well then ...

The drow girl throws Harm.
The drow girl touches Drizzt.
The drow girl then whacks him with her mace.
The drow girl takes the unconscious Drizzt off for her personal entertainment.

This one might work, provided of course that the smart little cleric somehow manages to avoid an AoO from Drizzt for casting within melee range, and it's also very dependant upon the fact that he hasn't readied an action. A bit risky.

The drow is a fighter?

The drow girl is smart.
The drow girl, gets an army of archers.
The drow girl and her army shoot Drizzt down.
The drow girl takes Drizzt's body for later amusement, and to prevent resurrection.

Have you forgotten what happened the last time a Drow army came to the surface after Drizzt?

The problem with Drizzt is that he has a Confusion spell up that affects all drow that engage him in combat.

Are you sure that Confusion spell didn't somehow get reflected back on the drow girl, cleric, or fighter? Their tactics aren't very sound.

None of them think to employ proper drow tactics against this outlaw.

Neither did any of these. A valiant attempt though.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Heh.

I fear you got me!

Ah well, back to the old drawing board (they wouldn't say that in Menzoberranzan, but they might as well say it.)

I'm sure there are some real 3rd edition wizards out there who could think up devastating, devilish spell combos to fry a certain drow ranger.

Being a 3rd edition newbie (a 2nd edition oldie, I guess), and not having played in a while, I fear I'm a bit rusty.
A real no-no, if you are going to try to kill Drizzt Do'Urden!

So, HEAR YE HEAR YE!

I need nasty spell combos for 3rd edition to take out annoying goody-goody rangers, be they drow, Drizzt, or Other!
Paste them here, paste them everywhere, and let the drow know how to kill that unsinkable Drizzt Do'Urden!

 

[kreynolds]

Ah well, back to the old drawing board

Actually, you were close.

Time Stop
Miasma
Greater Creeping Cold (Only do this if you have enough time stop rounds, such as you rolled more than 2. If you only have 2 rounds, skip this one and proceed to the next.)
Teleport without Error (to get the hell outta dodge, just in case)

More than likely, the Miasma will finish your target off, albeit very slowly. If it doesn't kill your target, Greater Creeping Cold will at least leave a lasting impression on them.

 

[Renshai]

Flexor once again makes infantile comments about the Forgotten Realms.

Drow used to be menacing & dark, evil to the core. Now everyone thinks of this crappy character when they think of Drow. He's just another small part of the pile of cheesy crap that is the Forgotten Realms.

WORST

SETTING

EVER!

For months I have watched you make derogatory comments not only about the FRCS but the people who find it enjoyable. You wax on about how cheesy and or crappy it is (for lack of a more interesting or even intelligent discourse on the subject) it is. Anytime the subject is brought up you fail to actually discuss what it is really don’t like. If you did then people might take you seriously. At the very least they might listen to your opinion and either agree, or try to have a real discussion on the subject.

On the subject of an actual comment: How are Drow not menacing, dark, and evil? If you actually had any knowledge on the subject of Drow Elves in the Realms you would not make that comment. You (and others) may not enjoy the novels about Drizzt (that happen to include a great deal of information on dark elves) but you must not have actually read them if you think they don’t portray the dark elves are evil and menacing. As I have read the first half of the new novel Dissolution I was once again surprised at the level of malice and pure evil present in the Drow society. Perhaps your comments are misplaced? Perhaps it is simply the mystique that is gone from the Drow. As much as I’d like, they will never be as mysterious as they were when I first cracked open my new copy of “Vault of the Drow”. The fact is though, the Drow in the Forgotten Realms and the Drow in that module are no different. Their just happens to be a wealth of information on them now.

Not much by what I can see. I think glossy pages and flashy production is what good suppliments are measured by these days. I'm sorry but I can't stand the FR anymore. I played in the realms when the boxed set came out and it was fine. Then after loads of terrible novels were all added to the cannon the setting began to go downhill fast.

So now fans of the setting are only capable of measuring their likes and dislikes by the production quality of the material? If you can’t see the deal of work and interesting material present in the FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Lords of Darkness, and Silver Marches then you must be blind. The FRCS is full of not only great setting information but tons of well thought out feats and interesting prestige classes that help flesh out the setting to a point that has not been seen before.

To just point out one instance, look at the City of Shade. This newly introduced plot offers so much potential for interesting adventures and political machinations that I’d never be able to touch them all in a year of Dungeon Mastering. When you go beyond that and look at the many political situations like the one present in Cormyr you see even more opportunities for in depth role-playing and quality story telling. Yet another campaign that could last for years before touching on all the potential for role-playing.

The new Silver Marches Product offers more sociological and political situations than I’ve seen in the Realms yet. The books just keep getting better and better, while offering plenty of appealing information for DMs that prefer role-playing or hack and slash.

I will be the first to admit that problems did exist in the Realms during 2E. It did. But even then I stuck with it because I believe it has a rich tapestry of historical, sociological, and political opportunities for more in depth campaigns than I could run in a life time.

People also seem to have a problem with the numbers of high level people in the Realms. What is your problem exactly? In a world laden with fantastical monsters and ancient civilizations build on the very nature of magic (the very nature of the game Dungeons and Dragons mind you) the world would be filled with experienced adventurers…

In closing, please try to offer an actual point of view that can be discussed in a civilized manor… or don’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

Ren

 

[Black Omega]

On the subject of an actual comment: How are Drow not menacing, dark, and evil? If you actually had any knowledge on the subject of Drow Elves in the Realms you would not make that comment. You (and others) may not enjoy the novels about Drizzt (that happen to include a great deal of information on dark elves) but you must not have actually read them if you think they don’t portray the dark elves are evil and menacing. As I have read the first half of the new novel Dissolution I was once again surprised at the level of malice and pure evil present in the Drow society.

As someone who likes the Drow, I think they can be very menacing and evil. But in the novels they don't tend to be very threatening except to each other. I've not read Dissolution, I basically quit reading RAS's stuff after thge Drow attacked the Dwarven Kingdom and we got stuff like mages foiling mindflayers by polymorphing their brains into their butts. The drow do get to be evil, but they never are even remotely a match for the good guys. For whatever reason, most fights the drow are allowed to win are against other evil types. Against the good guys they to often feel like Imperial Stormtroopers.

 

[drnuncheon]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I'm curious as to what everyone hates about Drizzt? I mean, how could you not like the guy. He's one of the best heroes ever.

One word: Fanboys.

I actually read the Dark Elf trilogy one afternoon, and it contained a lot of stuff that just bugged me - the whole concept of 'drow are genetically evil' rubbed me the wrong way, for instance.

I also never wondered if Drizzt was going to survive - which is not necessarily a bad thing. Plenty of heroes always win, as has been pointed out in this thread. Unfortunately, I also never found myself wondering how he would win, which is the difference between Drizzt and, say, James Bond.

In short, Salvatore didn't make me care about the character. The only reason I finished the books was because I was jonesing for reading material and I knew a lot of people thought they were the best fiction TSR put out.

J
...at least they were a quick read - I hate not finishing books...

 

[Conservative Cow]

On these boards, when you ask people their opinions on a book or character, don't be suprised at the White Tower Academia that they sprout off. " Ohhh I won't soil my fingers and mind on that amatuer tripe!"

Either you like it or you don't. There is no reason to belittle the man or his work. Most of the points presented so far have been ignorent of the whole Drizzit story.

Take for example..

" Why is he diffrent? Why is there such an urge to be good and go against the grain? "

Well, he was supposed to be sacraficed. If one of his older brothers hadn't died in a raid on an opposing house, there wouldn't have been a Drizzit, so really, he shouldn't have been. Secondly, he came from Zak, who himself has a checkered past with the drow. If it wasn't for his combat abilty, he would have been made a drider. This resistent trait was given to his daughter ( Name escapes me ) Who raised drizzit for a few years, who showed him some kindess. Later on down the line and he came under Zak's training, not only did he repeadtedly get pounded into unconscience in some very intense training, Zak taught him about Drow society and how he lives in a paradox, knowing his lifestyle is wrong but having to deal with it. His father ( Zak ) was one of the most inspirational people is D's life

" He's so one dimensional "
How so? In the Dark Elf trilogy, his views on life are always changeing as he progresses through Drow society and eventually, into the Underdark. The Drizzit in Homeland and Exile is a diffrent Drizzit from the crystal shard.



Just goes to show, you can't hide what you don't know. If you don't like Drizzit becuase he isn't your cup of tea ( Like me ) Then just say so, don't outright lie.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Flexor once again makes infantile comments about the Forgotten Realms.

For months I have watched you make derogatory comments not only about the FRCS but the people who find it enjoyable. You wax on about how cheesy and or crappy it is (for lack of a more interesting or even intelligent discourse on the subject) it is. Anytime the subject is brought up you fail to actually discuss what it is really don’t like. If you did then people might take you seriously. At the very least they might listen to your opinion and either agree, or try to have a real discussion on the subject.

On the subject of an actual comment: How are Drow not menacing, dark, and evil? If you actually had any knowledge on the subject of Drow Elves in the Realms you would not make that comment. You (and others) may not enjoy the novels about Drizzt (that happen to include a great deal of information on dark elves) but you must not have actually read them if you think they don’t portray the dark elves are evil and menacing. As I have read the first half of the new novel Dissolution I was once again surprised at the level of malice and pure evil present in the Drow society. Perhaps your comments are misplaced? Perhaps it is simply the mystique that is gone from the Drow. As much as I’d like, they will never be as mysterious as they were when I first cracked open my new copy of “Vault of the Drow”. The fact is though, the Drow in the Forgotten Realms and the Drow in that module are no different. Their just happens to be a wealth of information on them now.





So now fans of the setting are only capable of measuring their likes and dislikes by the production quality of the material? If you can’t see the deal of work and interesting material present in the FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Lords of Darkness, and Silver Marches then you must be blind. The FRCS is full of not only great setting information but tons of well thought out feats and interesting prestige classes that help flesh out the setting to a point that has not been seen before.

To just point out one instance, look at the City of Shade. This newly introduced plot offers so much potential for interesting adventures and political machinations that I’d never be able to touch them all in a year of Dungeon Mastering. When you go beyond that and look at the many political situations like the one present in Cormyr you see even more opportunities for in depth role-playing and quality story telling. Yet another campaign that could last for years before touching on all the potential for role-playing.

The new Silver Marches Product offers more sociological and political situations than I’ve seen in the Realms yet. The books just keep getting better and better, while offering plenty of appealing information for DMs that prefer role-playing or hack and slash.

I will be the first to admit that problems did exist in the Realms during 2E. It did. But even then I stuck with it because I believe it has a rich tapestry of historical, sociological, and political opportunities for more in depth campaigns than I could run in a life time.

People also seem to have a problem with the numbers of high level people in the Realms. What is your problem exactly? In a world laden with fantastical monsters and ancient civilizations build on the very nature of magic (the very nature of the game Dungeons and Dragons mind you) the world would be filled with experienced adventurers…

In closing, please try to offer an actual point of view that can be discussed in a civilized manor… or don’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

Ren

I'm just wasting time at work, I don't really care much if I'm taken seriously, well I do a little but it's not the be all, end all of life. Ok I'll admit the FR books are nicely put together in a physical sense. The quality of the material is another thing but I'll give you the production is good. I suppose I ripped on that becuase I was reading something where people were stating they weren't even interested in RPG books that didn't have glossy full color art and a hardback cover, etc. That kind of irks me.
I suppose my view on the subject is this. TO ME, and of course YMMV, the FR books are like modern pop music. Slick, well packaged, and super clean, to be sure. However I find it fundamentally worthless once you scratch the surface, IMO. Of course I'm quite biased I'll admit. I'm the kind of person who is "old school" and tends to look on new ideas with some skepticism. I look at the art in the new books and see anime influence in places, I hate it. I prefer the old black and white line art to stuff like the pic of the sorcerer in the PH. That's the way I am and will always be. I don't want a monk to be like a Dragonball Z character at high levels, I want Caine from Kung-Fu. Hell if it was up to me the group would still be playing 1e, and may be again after this game is over

I don't know if any of this made sense, I think I lost some coherence at the end...

 

[Teflon Billy]

...I look at the art in the new books and see anime influence in places, I hate it. I prefer the old black and white line art to stuff like the pic of the sorcerer in the PH. That's the way I am and will always be. I don't want a monk to be like a Dragonball Z character at high levels, I want Caine from Kung-Fu. Hell if it was up to me the group would still be playing 1e, and may be again after this game is over ...

I hear you man. The Anime influence in 3E irks me a bit as well (not enough to dump it mind you).

As for playing 1E, you should take alook at Kenzer's Hackmaster...a fabulous reeworking of 1E. Very playable despite first impressions