D&D General What is player agency to you?

[Vaalingrade]

There is the friction between my style and the other games.

Not only are they the type that like the game where "the DM is my fan/best buddy". They are VERY used to just not paying attention, goofing off, wandering away from the table or being on their phones for half of the game...or more. So they will often say "get an important call" then leave the game table to go outside and talk....then run back in as soon as they see combat starting. Then their fan/buddy DM will give them a quick 'update' of everything they missed and the player will take some random action. And if the random action is dumb, stupid or unwise the DM will "save" the character with something like "oh, best bud, you can't go north there is a wall of fire there.." And the player will say "thanks DM...I did not know that as I was not her at the table playing the game for the last half hour...yuck yuck yuck".

And......my game is: "If you get up to take that phone call, your leaving the game for the whole summer." So.....you can see a big difference.

A lack of vivid, boiling antagonism and open distain for mutual respect?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not never (nobody's perfect), but I do try to avoid it, on both sides, most of the time.

So...you actively try to avoid making a better story?

Why? I'm completely serious here. Why would you want to leave the story worse than it could be?

You're literally saying that if you had a choice between a character that had a backstory that was written to be interesting, and another that was written to have the most boring backstory ever, you would choose the latter. Why?

 

[Micah Sweet]

So...you actively try to avoid making a better story?

Why? I'm completely serious here. Why would you want to leave the story worse than it could be?

You're literally saying that if you had a choice between a character that had a backstory that was written to be interesting, and another that was written to have the most boring backstory ever, you would choose the latter. Why?

I don't go out of the way to be boring, I just don't prioritize telling a story over presenting and/or experiencing a fantasy world where you do whatever you put your mind and body to. D&D is not, to me, a storytelling game, and assuming it is is a cause of many disagreements.

Again, its a spectrum, not a binary.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I don't go out of the way to be boring, I just don't prioritize telling a story over presenting and/or experiencing a fantasy world where you do whatever you put your mind and body to. D&D is not, to me, a storytelling game, and assuming it is is a cause of many disagreements.

Again, its a spectrum, not a binary.

Well, I generally agree that DD can, and is played in a way that is not necessarily a storytelling device; however, isn’t creating a fantasy world to be experienced a means of storytelling? If you put a lot of thought into the world that has a story waiting to be told? It is just more DM driven story isn’t it?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, I generally agree that DD can, and is played in a way that is not necessarily a storytelling device; however, isn’t creating a fantasy world to be experienced a means of storytelling? If you put a lot of thought into the world that has a story waiting to be told? It is just more DM driven story isn’t it?

The DM (mostly) creates the world, and the players decide what they want to do in it. A story can be told after the fact about those interactions, but doing so isn't the point of play to me.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

The DM (mostly) creates the world, and the players decide what they want to do in it. A story can be told after the fact about those interactions, but doing so isn't the point of play to me.

IMO, creating the world is a type of storytelling.

To clarify, I’m not saying that makes it a storytelling game though

 

[jmartkdr2]

IMO, creating the world is a type of storytelling.

To clarify, I’m not saying that makes it a storytelling game though

I sometimes make a point of distinguishing story from narrative. I got the idea form a English Ph.D. candidate friend of mine: story implies a certain kind of structure, with a beginning, middle, and end, and that story has a point beyond being a bunch of words. A storytelling game is trying to create a story with the aid of game rules - but the goal is to end up with a story.

A narrative is just a bunch of stuff that happens presented in some form. I.e. a conversation about what happens to characters. A non-story ttrpg still has a narrative, but the narrative can be built without regard to story structure, themes, or any of the things that make a story more than a bunch of stuff that happened. An actual story may arise from the chaos, but it does not need to be the goal. (which is clear when you make the distinction.)

 

[Micah Sweet]

I sometimes make a point of distinguishing story from narrative. I got the idea form a English Ph.D. candidate friend of mine: story implies a certain kind of structure, with a beginning, middle, and end, and that story has a point beyond being a bunch of words. A storytelling game is trying to create a story with the aid of game rules - but the goal is to end up with a story.

A narrative is just a bunch of stuff that happens presented in some form. I.e. a conversation about what happens to characters. A non-story ttrpg still has a narrative, but the narrative can be built without regard to story structure, themes, or any of the things that make a story more than a bunch of stuff that happened. An actual story may arise from the chaos, but it does not need to be the goal. (which is clear when you make the distinction.)

Yes. By that definition, what I want will allow for narrative, but story is not a goal.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I'm not sure this applies. None of the "new to me" players have any real detailed back story or drama. These are just summer games, not massive self insert ego stroking easy button adventure for "that" type of player.

to be fair it wasn't directed at your game/situation or to do with backstories, just the idea that there are different ways of establishing who the villian of the story is, it was directed at that (in my understanding) Bayushi_seikuro was mistaking oofta's claim of 'not being able to decide who the villian is as a player' as 'not being able to pick a fight with a NPC' rather than 'not being able to declare the identity/characteristics of an existing villian of unknown identity'

 

[nevin]

Why didn't you just tell the DM that you weren't interested in playing the game they wanted to run? What you described seems like either a gigantic waste of everyone's time or some kind of obscure punishment for the DM.

because it was friends game and no one wanted to cancel game and no one wanted to give so we had to drive into the wall.