D&D General What is player agency to you?

[mamba]

I know what an outlier is, I just wasn't sure what it was that you were referring to which was supposed to be one.

not granting the audience, or more generally speaking deciding the outcome instead of letting the rules decide.

 

[Campbell]

Burning Wheel and Apocalypse World might not be all that relevant to mainstream D&D, but a collaborative approach to worldbuilding absolutely is. The most popular D&D actual play, Critical Role, absolutely features some PC centered collaborative worldbuilding. The neotrad demographic is a strong element of the current D&D fanbase, particularly its younger demographic.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Burning Wheel and Apocalypse World might not be all that relevant to mainstream D&D, but a collaborative approach to worldbuilding absolutely is. The most popular D&D actual play, Critical Role, absolutely features some PC centered collaborative worldbuilding. The neotrad demographic is a strong element of the current D&D fanbase, particularly its younger demographic.

Yeah, the young'uns are the prime movers behind pushing the industry further away from my preferences. But that's life.

 

[Maxperson]

So it's the apex, right!? Lol. Anyway let's steer ourselves onto some other more productive debate...

I guess. It's the apex and the lowest at the same time, since agency only matters within the playstyle. You can think of DM driven play as the apex gasoline(player agency for that style), and narrative as apex diesel(player agency for that style) and another playstyle as the apex electric(player agency for that style). They're all apex! Because none of them are the same.

It's a waste of time to try and compare gasoline to diesel or electric, since they are different fuel(agency) types. One isn't going to be greater or lesser than the other. For greater or lesser agency comparisons you need to stay within a given playstyle. So comparing DM driven play, one system might have 89 octane and another 91 octane with the latter having more agency within the style.

 

[Maxperson]

This makes no sense.

Sure it does, if you understand that each playstyle has a different kind of agency. If you're using narrative agency on me in my DM driven game, you're lowering the amount of agency I have, just as would happen to you if I used my agency in your narrative game.

Neither agency is greater or less than the other. They're just different.

 

[Maxperson]

So the above is you. And it's one of the first instances in this thread of someone dividing the conversation into 'sides' after a very early mention by Defcon 1 and then later by Frogreaver.

Is this you as well?



One might assume that it's a simple mistake on your part to have missed the regular repeat of your use of the word 'side' by maxperson, oofta, frogreaver and mamba - all on the same 'side' - and to have accidentally picked up on a rare repeat of your terminology by 'the other side'.

Since that's the case you're not in any position to try and play tone police or lecture others on 'actually wanting a conversation'.

Given your very early use of the tactic of 'turning everything into sides' in this thread, it's an exercise for the reader as to the level of hypocrisy involved. They can each make their own judgement as to the credibilty of your sudden claims to the moral high ground.

Um, this is the post @Snarf Zagyg was responding to.

"So yet again: players can't be trusted, GMs are infallible and selfless"

That is clearly dividing posters up into sides, and has Snarf essentially saying that it's not a good idea to split things up into sides...................which he just repeated.

Acting as if Snarf is somehow contradicting himself is pretty disingenuous.

But to answer your question, yes both of those were Snarf saying that it's not a good idea to split discussions into sides.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Um, this is the post @Snarf Zagyg was responding to.
.

i always check the style and the posting history of someone before choosing whether to respond or ignore.

Just sayin’.

 

[Maxperson]

i always check the style and the posting history of someone before choosing whether to respond or ignore.

Just sayin’.

I wish I had that luxury. Unfortunately my ADHD means that if I don't respond immediately, I will very often just plain forget to respond at all, or forget exactly what it was I wanted to say, but remember enough to know that what I'm typing now isn't that response, which bugs the living hell out of me. So I sort of have to respond as I encounter not just posts, but portions of posts which is why I break so many of them up into pieces.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Sure it does, if you understand that each playstyle has a different kind of agency. If you're using narrative agency on me in my DM driven game, you're lowering the amount of agency I have, just as would happen to you if I used my agency in your narrative game.

Neither agency is greater or less than the other. They're just different.

Player agency is player agency. There aren't two types.

The more DM driven a game of D&D is, the less player agency it will have. It's not complicated. It also doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with DM driven play.

 

[Maxperson]

Player agency is player agency. There aren't two types.

Yes there are. Or at least different systems look to different things to establish agency.

The more DM driven a game of D&D is, the less player agency it will have.

Nope. My agency is enhanced by it and would be diminished in a narrative system. It's really not hard. I don't want what the narrative systems offer, so forcing those things on me and ignoring my desires and sought outcomes to give it to me lessens my agency.