D&D General What is player agency to you?

[FrozenNorth]

So they would accept that I have the right to be there, would treat me as a member of the nobility, and would grant me an audience with a local noble (of whom the UK has quite a few, some of whom live in and about Buckingham Palace).

Yup, I see no reason why a PC wouldn’t be able to get an audience with Prince Andrew, who disgraced as he may be, is still the king’s brother. At that point, it’s up to the PCs to parlay that opportunity into something useful to them, perhaps even sn audience with the king.

 

[mamba]

The feature grants an audience with a noble, not necessarily the noble you want.

yet people go ballistic when we said that an audience with a specific noble is not guaranteed

I think this is fine. The point is that something happens and the PC has an opportunity to leverage their position upwards.

that is pretty much the opposite of what ‘your side’ argued for…

 

[Maxperson]

But they're imaginary if they don't exist. Where are the actual instances of this, in your or anyone else's play?

Hypotheticals are sufficient.

An efreeti noble in the City of Brass that views all mortals as insects unworthy of attention isn't going to give an insect unworthy of attention an audience. It's ridiculous to think that it would.

A group that finds itself on Earth and seeks an audience with the president of the U.S. based on being a noble from another universe isn't going to be granted that audience. It's absurd to think that he would grant it to the noble in the group just because of a minor ability that exists in an exceptions based system.

 

[Maxperson]

The feature grants an audience with a noble, not necessarily the noble you want. So, you don’t meet with the President, but instead some other functionary.

That wouldn't happen, either. At best you'd get interrogated by the Secret Service or some other law enforcement official and released. At worst you end up jailed or put on a 5150 hold(the D.C. equivalent anyway).

 

[Oofta]

Hypotheticals are sufficient.

An efreeti noble in the City of Brass that views all mortals as insects unworthy of attention isn't going to give an insect unworthy of attention an audience. It's ridiculous to think that it would.

A group that finds itself on Earth and seeks an audience with the president of the U.S. based on being a noble from another universe isn't going to be granted that audience. It's absurd to think that he would grant it to the noble in the group just because of a minor ability that exists in an exceptions based system.

In my campaign it would be a noble trying to get an audience in Jotunheim, land of the giants. Most giants don't know diddly about Midgard (prime material) unless they're planning an invasion. There is no way a noble from Midgard would be recognized as anything special, certainly not one of the slave races. This is not a hypothetical to me, my current campaign had the PCs trapped there for a while to help stop an invasion. Nobody asked for an audience because it would have made no sense.

But I can think of a dozen other scenarios. A doppelganger has been running around impersonating nobility and then assassinating whoever gives them audience. You're on a different plane of existence, a different timeline, an alternate universe. Even if your world has divinely chosen nobles, does that apply to every noble? Including the example of successful businessman given a title? What if that title is granted halfway around the world in a region the locals have never hear of? These are all things that could happen in my campaign.

Funny. People talk about how in narrative games the declared action has to make sense in the fiction. But if anyone states that in D&D the declaration has to make sense in the fiction, the pitchforks and torches come out.

I think the background features are poorly written even if they would work the vast majority of times. But I'm always going to put the fiction of the world ahead of a background feature.

 

[Maxperson]

But I can think of a dozen other scenarios. A doppelganger has been running around impersonating nobility and then assassinating whoever gives them audience. You're on a different plane of existence, a different timeline, an alternate universe. Even if your world has divinely chosen nobles, does that apply to every noble? Including the example of successful businessman given a title? What if that title is granted halfway around the world in a region the locals have never hear of? These are all things that could happen in my campaign.

I think that if you have to start altering the ability to add things like divine right in order to cause an audience to make sense, you've admitted that you encounter scenarios where the ability as written would fail due to situations where it doesn't make sense to work.

 

[hawkeyefan]

That's false. I don't have to murder someone to be able to tell you that it's wrong.

This is a sloppy analogy. It paints a preference as being wrong.

I can 100% say and see that it's legit that there are going to be situations where allowing that ability to work won't make sense.

You can 100% say that would be an issue for you. Because I’m saying this type of play 100% does not cause these concerns.

And you're the only one doing that. I'm saying how I run it and that there are situations where it doesn't make sense. You're telling me that 1) my concerns are all imaginary, 2) my concerns aren't legit, and 3) my concerns are all nonsense!

Those are the same thing!

Not once have I told you that you have to run it my way or that it won't work in your game.

And I’m not telling you how to run your game. You can do whatever you like.

yet people go ballistic when we said that an audience with a specific noble is not guaranteed

No one did. I was one of the first in the thread to point out that the ability doesn’t guarantee an audience with a specific noble.

An efreeti noble in the City of Brass that views all mortals as insects unworthy of attention isn't going to give an insect unworthy of attention an audience. It's ridiculous to think that it would.

And all efreeti are the same? So many suggestions were made about this example, I don’t know why you’d bring it up again.

Hypotheticals are sufficient.

They’re not. Anyone can make up a hypothetical fear about someone else’s playstyle and then claim that it’s a concern for that playstyle.

That wouldn't happen, either. At best you'd get interrogated by the Secret Service or some other law enforcement official and released. At worst you end up jailed or put on a 5150 hold(the D.C. equivalent anyway).

Or you’d cast a cantrip and draw your flametongue and then get an audience.

 

[FrogReaver]

That wouldn't happen, either. At best you'd get interrogated by the Secret Service or some other law enforcement official and released. At worst you end up jailed or put on a 5150 hold(the D.C. equivalent anyway).

While I mostly agree I think even that’s ruled out a bit too hastily.

I can easily see some member of the House of Representatives having their campaign staff meet with you just to see if there’s any way to leverage you or the situation to their advantage.

 

[mamba]

While I mostly agree I think even that’s ruled out a bit too hastily.

I can easily see some member of the House of Representatives having their campaign staff meet with you just to see if there’s any way to leverage you or the situation to their advantage.

If you approach them, rather than the president

 

[FrogReaver]

If you approach them, rather than the president

Noble feature doesn’t say you approach anyone. Just that you can get an audience with a local noble.