What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[CreamCloud0]

That, BTW, is the sort of thing I very much do not like and what I do not do when I GM. If the NPC's deception beats the PC's insight that means that the PC does not detect signs of lying, but this doesn't mean they have to believe them. After all, the PC certainly knows that some people are very good liars!

on the other hand that kind of thing is exactly what i don't like, the character has detected absolutely zero signs of deception and yet, oh so mysteriously, they have some secret sixth sense that causes them to still distrust this apparently honest NPC.

honestly i think players shouldn't even know the results of their own contested rolls sometimes, because it gives them insight into the situation in ways they shouldn't have, oh, i rolled a 6 on my insight and the GM says they seem trustworthy, hmmm, i think my character might still be suspicious of them...

 

[Crimson Longinus]

on the other hand that kind of thing is exactly what i don't like, the character has detected absolutely zero signs of deception and yet, oh so mysteriously, they have some secret sixth sense that causes them to still distrust this apparently honest NPC.

It is not weird at all. People suspects others of lying based on the context of the situation all the time, even if the person's performance was not particularly suspicious.

honestly i think players shouldn't even know the results of their own contested rolls sometimes, because it gives them insight into the situation in ways they shouldn't have, oh, i rolled a 6 on my insight and the GM says they seem trustworthy, hmmm, i think my character might still be suspicious of them...

Yeah, perhaps the player shouldn't know their own roll in this instance, but that's cumbersome. And they do not know the NPC's roll and they do not know whether the NPC was actually lying.

Besides, more we outsource the PCs thoughts to the rules less the game is about the player playing the character and more it is about watching the rules to play the character. If the rules and the dice keep telling what my character thinks or believes or how they act, I will just hand the dice and the character sheet to the GM as my contributions are obviously not needed. Just roll the dice to see what my character does!

 

[Bill Zebub]

It is not weird at all. People suspects others of lying based on the context of the situation all the time, even if the person's performance was not particularly suspicious.



Yeah, perhaps the player shouldn't know their own roll in this instance, but that's cumbersome. And they do not know the NPC's roll and they do not know whether the NPC was actually lying.

Besides, more we outsource the PCs thoughts to the rules less the game is about the player playing the character and more it is about watching the rules to play the character. If the rules and the dice keep telling what my character thinks or believes or how they act, I will just hand the dice and the character sheet to the GM as my contributions are obviously not needed. Just roll the dice to see what my character does!

This is why I don't have any sort of non-magical lie detection when I GM.

"Do I think the NPC is lying?"
"I don't know...do you?"

 

[Thomas Shey]

This is why I don't have any sort of non-magical lie detection when I GM.

"Do I think the NPC is lying?"
"I don't know...do you?"

And my reaction as always is "If I wanted to only play characters that can do what I can, I'd be LARPing." (Though that's probably even unfair to LARPing).

Edit: That was a little blithe and snarky on my part. But it still adds up to "If you're not good at judging liars, and/or the GM isn't good at properly displaying tells, good luck." Which seems at least as poor a play cycle as being dependent on die rolls.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

This is why I don't have any sort of non-magical lie detection when I GM.

"Do I think the NPC is lying?"
"I don't know...do you?"

Right! And even with games like D&D where there is a skill like insight, I don't think it should work as an actual lie detector. I usually have it to give information about the feelings and attitudes of the NPCs, as well as the social dynamics of the situation, but not to work as an outright lie detection. Though of course sometimes those things certainly might pretty strongly imply that a person might be lying.