What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[Bill Zebub]

Yes, like watching a horror movie about people being chased by axe murderer will make you scared, but probably not quite as scared than actually being chased by an axe murderer would!

But that the core feeling is real, and that is the tether that guides the character.

Yeah this is kind of what I was trying to say above.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Method acting isn't the only form of acting, nor is it inherently a superior form of acting.

Oh...that's an interesting leap. I don't think they were necessarily describing method acting, let alone valuing it for its surface acting/authenticity qualities. They were just talking about enjoying the internal state.

 

[hawkeyefan]

We're not going to agree. I can't see any part of this conversation as "destroying your character".

I think that’s actually a big part of this. That ownership that we all can't help but feel toward our characters. That bit of self that’s in them. We don’t want to find out that our character (

We're not going to agree. I can't see any part of this conversation as "destroying your character".

I think this is a big part of things. We all feel that sense of ownership over our characters. We can’t help it. They’re “ours”. There’s some bit of ourselves in them. We try to view the world through their eyes… to “be” them to some extent.

So there’s a reflexive resistance to anyone or anything else telling us what our character thinks or feels. But I think that’s a product of that ownership more so than anything else.

And I think that feeling of ownership is a different thing than being a person. I think to try and feel like someone rather than just choose things for them based on an internal model or whatever, we need to not be 100% in control… because people are not always 100% in control.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I mean, I think the core distinction is that I don't feel the weight of that discovery if the discovery is a choice I make as a player. I much prefer it to come from a source external to me, with a real risk that what I think should happen might not happen. I've set up the conflict, the system provides the resolution, and then I narrate the consequences.

At its core, what Max is looking for and what I'm looking for are opposing preferences that can't be reconciled.

yeah i was having this thought earlier today, there's a difference between those plot twists that happen as you conceding as a conscious character decision and the ones that result of the dice telling you your character failed.

 

[Bill Zebub]

yeah i was having this thought earlier today, there's a difference between those plot twists that happen as you conceding as a conscious character decision and the ones that result of the dice telling you your character failed.

It seems to me that even if players are granted full, inviolable control of their characters' thoughts and feelings and decisions there are still endless opportunities for the dice to tell them they have failed.

 

[TwoSix]

It seems to me that even if players are granted full, inviolable control of their characters' thoughts and feelings and decisions there are still endless opportunities for the dice to tell them they have failed.

Yes, but you wouldn't be able to fail on a check that explicitly questions your character's thoughts and feelings.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's pretty hard to tell the difference 99% of the time. Narrating your choices as being grounded in character concept and backstory is fairly trivial, even if your personal motivation for the choices is to drive for conflict and drama. Believe me, I've been doing it for decades with all sorts of more "traditional" tables.

Like I said, "if I notice". You're welcome to trick me with your motivation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, its largely not going to be visible from the outside; that's why I can slip from Author to IC fairly easily most of the time and vice versa. Ironically, the only time its liable to be noticable is if I realize a decision I'm leaning toward is most likely going to be disruptive to other players or the game as a whole in a bad way, in which case I'll pull back on the reigns and choose something else.

So long as what your PC does makes sense in the setting for that character, we're golden.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yes, but you wouldn't be able to fail on a check that explicitly questions your character's thoughts and feelings.

Yup.

And, I have to admit, even after closely following this entire thread I don't truly understand why anybody would want that. It would just yank me right out of the kind of immersion I enjoy.

To extend the method acting metaphor, it would be the director (I'm imagining Paul Schaffer) screaming, "Cut! Cut! No, no, NO! I want you crying, not laughing!"

 

[Micah Sweet]

The internal model of the character says the character dislikes the NPC, the dice say your character likes this NPC. Immersion ruined.

Ok, you do you (although I don't see a situation where the dice tell you who you like). That's not the same as "character destroyed"