What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[TaranTheWanderer]

Yes, and? A great many stories, some of the best, STRONGLY take away main-character agency. So yeah, if you run most stories as they are written, you are gonna get a lot of comments of 'this feels railroaded'.

Notice how many stories are not like GTA... very few are just us watching a person do whatever comes to mind, and changing on a whim. But for things like Skyrim or GTA or Outter Worlds etc etc = that can be the majority of play! And very very few people would say that those open-world areas were 'railroad' feeling.

Heck, some players even avoid the 'main quest' because it feels too on rails...

I’m just pointing out that, if the GM doesn’t lay down obstacles, it’s not much of an Odyssey.

I think, if you didn’t force them to go somewhere and it was already established what modes of transportation work within the area, then it isn’t a railroad.

If the DM told Odysseys’ player, “you can take this safe way but it will take a long time. Maybe even 20 years. Or, You can take the dangerous way and you may sink your ship and it could still take a long time. But it also might go quicker. And you might get treasure.”

Then the player makes a choice.

Getting stuck in the cyclops cave isn’t the DM railroading. If the DM is planning to have 20 years pass, regardless of player choice, then it is railroading.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

I’m just pointing out that, if the GM doesn’t lay down obstacles, it’s not much of an Odyssey.

'Obstacles' are not what is in question here.

Getting stuck in the cyclops cave isn’t the DM railroading. If the DM is planning to have 20 years pass, regardless of player choice, then it is railroading.

This is all your post needs to say, as it is the same exact thing I am saying too: the more you remove player choice the more railroad the game gets/feels.
It does not matter what the "thing" is; obstacle, event, location plot, item, etc etc, etc = taking away choice or greatly limiting anything will make the game have some aspect of being railroaded.
- This can come from dangers, or from items available, or from how NPCs interact. There are many ways a player can feel like they are just a puppet dancing for the GM, which can feel like few, some, many, or all of the game is on rails and limits choice. (maybe too much, maybe not. Again, some players and some games are great for this).

Just like what happened to Reynard, his player felt railroaded. And that phrase I hear often enough to see what it tends to relate to. The big time it reallllly often comes up is in "you are all stuck here" scenarios. But I digress...

 

[Gradine]

 

[Maxperson]

Generally when a player complains of a railroad it means they cannot immediately do something they want to do and oftentimes see no way to achieve it. Thats useful information, but you’ve got to consider the totality of the circumstances to determine if it’s a complaint more reflective of you or them.

I agree. What I'm having a hard time with under this scenario, is in understanding how a group playing high level PCs(at least two can cast 6th level or higher spells) is going to feel like there's no other way to resolve the situation of being on the Feywild.

This is likely just a case of the player being immediately frustrated at the tuning forks being gone.

 

[Reynard]

This is likely just a case of the player being immediately frustrated at the tuning forks being gone.

This, and they admitted as much in follow up chat. But it doesn't necessarily mean that I had not railroaded them into the situation (even if the group of 13th level PCs laden with items and sporting 2 wishes should have been able to do something).

 

[Maxperson]

'Obstacles' are not what is in question here.


This is all your post needs to say, as it is the same exact thing I am saying too: the more you remove player choice the more railroad the game gets/feels.
It does not matter what the "thing" is; obstacle, event, location plot, item, etc etc, etc = taking away choice or greatly limiting anything will make the game have some aspect of being railroaded.
- This can come from dangers, or from items available, or from how NPCs interact. There are many ways a player can feel like they are just a puppet dancing for the GM, which can feel like few, some, many, or all of the game is on rails and limits choice. (maybe too much, maybe not. Again, some players and some games are great for this).

Just like what happened to Reynard, his player felt railroaded. And that phrase I hear often enough to see what it tends to relate to. The big time it reallllly often comes up is in "you are all stuck here" scenarios. But I digress...

The only disagreement I have with what you are saying here is that @Reynard's players did not have their choice greatly reduced. They lost temporary access to one spell. From what he said in a follow-up post, they knew they were going into the Feywild. "They found the Fae Cabin in the remote woods, knowing the interior was no longer on the prime."

Then the Void was drawn and the soul was trapped. It made sense for the soul to be on that plane, so the ensuing adventure was not a railroad. The only choice reduction via force was in the tuning forks being stolen, which is fairly minor.

 

[Maxperson]

This, and they admitted as much in follow up chat. But it doesn't necessarily mean that I had not railroaded them into the situation (even if the group of 13th level PCs laden with items and sporting 2 wishes should have been able to do something).

Unless I'm misunderstanding, they knew ahead of time that the cabin lead to the Feywild, and they voluntarily drew the cards from the Deck of Many Things. Those are choices they made that led to the soul being captured and held in the Feywild. The only thing I see you forcing is the loss of the tuning forks, but they had other options from that point and weren't forced anywhere else.

Am I missing something?

 

[Reynard]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, they knew ahead of time that the cabin lead to the Feywild, and they voluntarily drew the cards from the Deck of Many Things. Those are choices they made that led to the soul being captured and held in the Feywild. The only thing I see you forcing is the loss of the tuning forks, but they had other options from that point and weren't forced anywhere else.

Am I missing something?

The soul is not held in the feywild. It is elsewhere (they have since discerned where via Contct Other Plane).

The Void situation is entirely incidental to the Faewild situation, in that it was a random draw of the cards. They went into the cabin knowing it was a bridge to the Faewild, and they knew the door out was closed to them. Once they finished with the leprechaun and his Deck, they went in to the Faewild and that is when they discovered they could not simply plane shift home.

 

[Umbran]

Well, maybe that is due to...

Maybe. Maybe... maybe... maybe...

There's a lot of possible maybes.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

The only disagreement I have with what you are saying here is that @Reynard's players did not have their choice greatly reduced. They lost temporary access to one spell. From what he said in a follow-up post, they knew they were going into the Feywild. "They found the Fae Cabin in the remote woods, knowing the interior was no longer on the prime."

Then the Void was drawn and the soul was trapped. It made sense for the soul to be on that plane, so the ensuing adventure was not a railroad. The only choice reduction via force was in the tuning forks being stolen, which is fairly minor.

Yeah, I am guessing the being trapped there and having a few options removed or invalidated are where the railroad feels stemmed from. Maybe a bit of 'player just sad idea didn't work' too. Sometimes players get Overly focused on solving an issue and think they have won the day in one fell spell/swoop.... not railroading but it can 'feel' limiting when it clearly isn't.
- Drives me a lot crazy when players get hung up on their one grand solution that clearly ignores the rest of the scenario...